D&D 5E Alignment Shifts: Players and Group

twizty

First Post
A quick preface, I'm running my first campaign and it's been going pretty well. I'm running the DNDNext Ghost of Dragonspear Castle and everyone's really enjoying it. The party is most of the way through the Ambergul Estate and have had some interesting things happening with the players. A question of alignments and such are now coming in to play.


TLDR; Good aligned group, single player has been performing evil acts and has the group helping. At what point would an alignment shift come into play and are there any recommendations on dealing with it?


Have a Good aligned group and one player that is essentially unaligned. He's young, impressionable. He's asked that his alignment come to him through roleplay and group interaction. Bring Nature vs Nurture into the game. The character acts and does what he wants unless the group stops him and explains why not. Basic parenting. Throughout the game, he's convinced party members to decapitate various creatures they've killed so he can collect them for "spell components". None of these are actually spell components. He just wants to collect body parts for the fun of it.


Off the top of my head he has a couple Minotaurs heads, various body parts from a Wight, they rolled up (like a rug) a Lurker and Trapper, burnt troll skulls and finger bones. And several others parts I can't recall. During downtime, he spent an hour or two digging into the brains in the Minotaur skulls, much like a child with playdough and a dagger. The party did nothing to stop or even deter him.


He spent several minutes trying to convince the NG Pally to jump in a pool of boiling water, out of annoyance, the N Tempus Cleric stuck his hand in to prove it would hurt. The NG Pally ended up jumping in anyways.


They also caught him trying to steal several skulls from some coffins they found. He was found sleeping in one of the coffins with the stolen skulls. Lied and said the skulls were talking to him and told him to steal them. They didn't question it, just nodded and said let's get moving.


In the 2 years I've been playing, it has been explained that decapitating, skinning and collecting body parts of sentient beings for this purpose is an evil act. Since the group is assisting him 90% of the time with the collecting, via chopping and cutting these beings up, they are also performing evil acts. They're also not arguing or trying to stop his picking at brains. He talked his way out of it without getting a scolding. Over time, I'm planning on a group alignment shift if they don't come to the realization of what they're doing.


I'm curious what others thoughts are on this and how much of an alignment shift might be in store for them.


The Players:
Half-Elf Sorcerer: This is the player doing all the evil acts.
Half-Orc Fighter: CG aligned, believes in Gruumsh, but not a follower.
Half-Orc Cleric: True Neutral, War Cleric of Tempus
Tiefling Paladin: NG aligned, follower of Eldath. Does subdual dmg only, tries to talk before fighting as a last resort.
Human Bard: I honestly forget his alignment off the top of my head.
Elf Ranger: CG aligned, follower of Mielikkei.
 

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I would ask myself the following questions:

1. Is what the player is doing fun for everyone?
2. Is what the player is doing contributing to an exciting, memorable story?

If the answer to either of those questions is "No," then address it with the player outside the context of the game by asking for his help to resolve the problem. If the answers to those questions is "Yes," then I have to ask what you think an "alignment shift" is really going to accomplish. The alignment mechanic is almost totally irrelevant in D&D 5e.
 

I agree with Iserith. If the group is having fun, it's ok.

However, I will add that personally I would not have fun with someone playing an evil PC so one of the things I tell my players up front is that if I decide a character is evil, they become an NPC under my control.

I'm sure other DMs are ok with evil players, it's just not something I want to deal with. In addition, I don't want people to get to the point where they feel like their character would continue to associate with the person.

I also hold PCs accountable for their actions. Local authorities may have difficulty arresting high level characters, but PCs are not above the law (I make this clear to players at the beginning of the campaign as well).

Ask the other players in private if they have a problem with the evil PC. Talk to the player in question. Try to come to a resolution that everyone will agree with.

Good luck!
 

In the 2 years I've been playing, it has been explained that decapitating, skinning and collecting body parts of sentient beings for this purpose is an evil act. Since the group is assisting him 90% of the time with the collecting, via chopping and cutting these beings up, they are also performing evil acts. They're also not arguing or trying to stop his picking at brains. He talked his way out of it without getting a scolding. Over time, I'm planning on a group alignment shift if they don't come to the realization of what they're doing.
Starting fights and killing people for the sole purpose of collecting their body parts is outright evil, yes. I assume that they're not actually doing this though, since it seems something that the Paladin at least would object to.

Simply collecting body parts from dead beings isn't though. Its creepy and macabre, and will lead to severe social issues with other people though. Particularly if they aren't using preservative methods and so the smell of decay and rotting flesh surrounds them.
If there are human or other sentient being remains visible, expect attention from soldiers or guardsmen. Finding well-paying work could be very hard if no one wishes to associate with you.

You could check with the player and actually tie it into his character though: allow him to use a thematically appropriate item as a spell focus for example.
 


If the group is treading into morally troubling areas, I tend to have an obviously good force (like an angel or an old school paladin) interact hostilely with them (it doesn't necessarily have to be at the level of conflict, in fact it is better to build up to a fight) or an obviously evil force interact like they are allies (and it should be as creepy as you feel comfortable doing). Your player's PC's actions seem like a good fit for Yeenoghu, since hyenas and gnolls (plus ghouls back in the day) have a "desecrating the dead" feel to them. Depending on their level, I might arrange a fight with gnolls, and have a vrock show up and stop a gnoll from attacking the PC, because he is "favored by our lord."

The important thing is have options for the party (or the PC) to get back in the good if that is what they want. Unless they are 20th level, I figure they don't rate a conversation with the gods (not to mention that while getting to the gods is fun, arguing morality with them tends to be a drag on a lot of parties), but formal quests for atonement or random news of some great evil that the party can deal with are good.
 


I would ask myself the following questions:

1. Is what the player is doing fun for everyone?
2. Is what the player is doing contributing to an exciting, memorable story?

If the answer to either of those questions is "No," then address it with the player outside the context of the game by asking for his help to resolve the problem. If the answers to those questions is "Yes," then I have to ask what you think an "alignment shift" is really going to accomplish. The alignment mechanic is almost totally irrelevant in D&D 5e.

3. Is this ruining the fun of you running the game for them?

If you answer yes to this, then the campaign is doomed to sputter to a sad end as you lose interest in making it fun for the players.
 

Oh, I definitely don't plan to just go *poof* You're evil!. A DM tried that with me on my first character. He had 2 god's trying to coerce me to their side (he was insane and followed a made up god) and gave him extremely obscure dream that would've completely reversed everything about my character. I won't do that to anyone. I was pissed.

At least to the holy characters it feels off to me. I would think the Paladin following Eldath would be the last person to assist or allow this. It would be unnecessary violence, something a pacifistic god would not like. And the Tempus Cleric I would think sees this as dishonorable. They fought well, they died well. Leave them be.

Maybe the two will start having really disturbing dreams sent by their respective gods and be sent on a mission to repent. The Tempus Cleric has been sleeping at the local Tempus church instead of the Inn. Maybe through word of mouth the church hears of their actions and does not permit him entry until he rectifies.

3. Is this ruining the fun of you running the game for them?

If you answer yes to this, then the campaign is doomed to sputter to a sad end as you lose interest in making it fun for the players.

I'm thoroughly enjoying running the game. I've had to make a lot of adjustments on the fly because of it's being DNDNext and things not lining up with published info. Like not attacking them with 12 Wight's because that is a guaranteed TPK. I am fluttering about trying to come up with adventures tailored to them. I've been given such excellent open ended backstories that I'd love to fit into the world. Have them complete a personal story arch would be great.
 


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