TheCosmicKid
Hero
[MENTION=6704184]doctorbadwolf[/MENTION], have you ever read Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell? Or The Magicians? Or The Name of the Wind? Or A Wizard of Earthsea?
D&D 5E Guns in your world, and in mine!
TheCosmicKid
Hero
Interesting that it's dated 1707. Because of the Act of Union?
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Yes, I have. Not the first one, and I don't really remember much about the second and third. Earthsea is a favorite, though. Why?
If this is a continuation of the "science makes a setting not fantasy" argument, I'm going to save you some time.
I really, really, really don't care about this argument. I should have just rolled my eyes and refrained from responding when you made Eberron Lightning Rail argument. I have both observed and had arguments like this before, and I find them exhausting, and not in any way useful or informative.
lets just drop it. You know I don't agree with your premises, what possible conclusion could we agree on from completely opposing premises? The answer, in all likelihood, is none.
Im sorry I engaged in a discussion that I find annoying and beyond unproductive, wasting your time. Can we go back to talking about guns, now?
Slit518
Adventurer
It is to show the plate armor stopping the bullet from the gun.
Prakriti
Hi, I'm a Mindflayer, but don't let that worry you
If you want guns to be the trump-card that they are, then don't use conventional dice to represent their damage. Instead, do it this way:
Damage: 2d8, or half the target's maximum health, whichever is more. If the attack succeeds by 4 or more, then the target is instantly reduced to 0 hit points.
Damage: 2d8, or half the target's maximum health, whichever is more. If the attack succeeds by 4 or more, then the target is instantly reduced to 0 hit points.
Cap'n Kobold
Hero
In Eberron? Thunderstorm. Albeit one that with the right preparation and reagents (and Igor raising the copper rod on the roof) can be harnessed.
Now a lot of this is going to hinge on what your personal definitions of Science Fiction and of Fantasy are.
However, in Eberron, warforged aren't turned out by some industrial production line: Each one is an individual created by a poorly-understood interaction between a member of a particular family bearing a mysterious mark, an eldritch machine, and long-lost plans dating from an ancient war between Giants and extraplanar beings from the Dream Dimension.
The ritual that binds an elemental into a dragonshard is known by rote and performed by many Gnomes daily. You can still walk into the cabin of a Lightning rail locomotive, cast a spell, and talk with the captive magical being that powers it. Without the right magical destiny manifesting itself on your skin however, no amount of training will help you drive that train.
Science Fantasy - probably, but Eberron actively embraces the supernatural that general science fiction eschews.
Geoarrge
Explorer
I've been considering a set of rules that might make sense for making firearms more interesting. Add the following special abilities to all standard weapons according to damage type.
Bludgeoning
Clobbering. Whenever you have advantage on your attack roll, you deal extra damage as listed below. If your target falls to 0 Hit Points and passes a Constitution saving throw against a DC equal to the damage dealt, it falls unconscious without having to make a death saving throw.
Light +1d4
One-Handed +1d6
Two-Handed +1d8
Piercing
Armor piercing. You gain a bonus to attack rolls against any target with armor or natural armor, as listed below. This bonus is negated if the opponent is using a shield.
Light +2
One-Handed (and bows) +3
Two-Handed +4
Slashing
Lacerating. You gain a bonus to damage against unarmored opponents, as listed below.
Light +1d4
One-Handed +1d6
Two-Handed +1d8
Bludgeoning
Clobbering. Whenever you have advantage on your attack roll, you deal extra damage as listed below. If your target falls to 0 Hit Points and passes a Constitution saving throw against a DC equal to the damage dealt, it falls unconscious without having to make a death saving throw.
Light +1d4
One-Handed +1d6
Two-Handed +1d8
Piercing
Armor piercing. You gain a bonus to attack rolls against any target with armor or natural armor, as listed below. This bonus is negated if the opponent is using a shield.
Light +2
One-Handed (and bows) +3
Two-Handed +4
Slashing
Lacerating. You gain a bonus to damage against unarmored opponents, as listed below.
Light +1d4
One-Handed +1d6
Two-Handed +1d8
Caliburn101
Explorer
Rpgs always use flintlock - nothing earlier.
Medieval plate wasn't used against firearms except for a vanishingly short period of history and of course there were Japanese varieties for as very short period as well.
Plate died off as it didn't stop people dying, or being badly wounded with any reliability against firearms.
I'm ex-military and an enthusiast whose seen demo's live, not just old videos with optimal conditions for the armour as part of the setup. There is a significant different between 14th century medieval plate and proofed plate. Proofed is very heavy. Just try melee'ing in proofed full-plate of proof like an rpg character does, or even worse, adventure for a day and you'll see for yourself - or merely walk about with similar weight in webbing.
Plus of course the 'armour worked against firearms' ALWAYS points out the handily chosen cherry picked corner case of reinforced plate and very early guns - it never talks about every other type of armour.
Show me a video of brigandine, leather or chainmail stopping a bullet or stop talking nonsense about how armour works vs. musket shot.
Medieval plate wasn't used against firearms except for a vanishingly short period of history and of course there were Japanese varieties for as very short period as well.
Plate died off as it didn't stop people dying, or being badly wounded with any reliability against firearms.
I'm ex-military and an enthusiast whose seen demo's live, not just old videos with optimal conditions for the armour as part of the setup. There is a significant different between 14th century medieval plate and proofed plate. Proofed is very heavy. Just try melee'ing in proofed full-plate of proof like an rpg character does, or even worse, adventure for a day and you'll see for yourself - or merely walk about with similar weight in webbing.
Plus of course the 'armour worked against firearms' ALWAYS points out the handily chosen cherry picked corner case of reinforced plate and very early guns - it never talks about every other type of armour.
Show me a video of brigandine, leather or chainmail stopping a bullet or stop talking nonsense about how armour works vs. musket shot.
Why do you want a video of armor not designed to stop bullets stopping a bullet?
Salamandyr
Adventurer
Not true. 2nd Edition had the arquebus. Likewise, the flintlock is a firing mechanism, and isn't any more powerful than the wheel lock, or the matchlock, just more reliable. There may be other reasons for a 18th Century flintlocks to be more powerful than 16th Century matchlocks, like better powder or rifled barrels, but the firing mechanism had nothing to do with it.
untrue, as proven in this very thread. Unless you're focussing on medieval plate, because the Middle ages ended, but armor wearing didn't. It was still being worn, a lot, right through the 19th Century.
Likely more to do with the change in focus from heavy cavalry to massed infantry. It just wasn't not economical to arm a bunch of foot soldiers (whose individual lives the king wasn't overly concerned with anyway). The gentry kept wearing armor though.
Keep in mind that the effective range of a musket ball isn't all that great and wasn't even necessarily the greatest danger an 18th & 19th Century soldier was likely to face on the battlefield. He still had to fight against pike, sword & bayonet. And armor, even if it won't take a direct shot, will protect against incidental hits like slow moving shrapnel (the kind you get at the edge of a cannon blast).
Proofed plate has more to do with tempering than just thickness. And as pointed out in this thread, proofing was done with a pistol shot at point blank range. Most shots in battle are going to be at medium and further range. The real danger to a cavalryman isn't gunfire, it's canonshot. Armor doesn't do much against that (much higher velocity)
Well, modern armor is essentially brigandine. Likewise brigandine can be tempered just as easily as plate, and the smaller plates will necessarily cover few areas, but you can harden the really critical areas even more.
Mail would actually be pretty against a musket ball at anything out past medium range. Would leather be effective? It would be more effective than, say, skin. Which is the point--it's not that armor would necessarily stop a bullet; it's whether it would be protective, ie if someone wearing armor would have a higher AC than someone not wearing armor. And the answer is, of course, yes. Heck, leather was often worn in the 20th Century to protect against shrapnel.
D&D of course works in a fantasy world where people wear all different kinds of armor that would never have existed together--like for instance, why is highly labor intensive armor like mail cheaper than relatively inexpensive to produce (once you've figured out how to roll sheet metal) plate armor? Because...that's why.
A medieval longbowman, could fire an arrow with as much kinetic energy as just about any musket made, and competitive with any hand carried firearm until the 19th Century and minie balls and brass cartridges. We all accept that leather, mail, and plate work against that, so why do guns get to ignore physics?
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