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D&D 5E After 2 years the 5E PHB remains one of the best selling books on Amazon

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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
The main thing was an unprecedented media outreach combined with a US West Coast geek media mainstreaming of this culture. WotC tuned in to that at the right moment (make no mistake, it is temporary), and had the resources to bring them in. The icing on the cake was that 5E is a solid game, and the last foreseeably viable iteration.
 

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TerraDave

5ever, or until 2024
The main thing was an unprecedented media outreach combined with a US West Coast geek media mainstreaming of this culture. WotC tuned in to that at the right moment (make no mistake, it is temporary), and had the resources to bring them in. The icing on the cake was that 5E is a solid game, and the last foreseeably viable iteration.

Critical Role and the rest certainly haven't hurt. But it wouldn't be where it is if the game wasn't solid and WotC hadn't made extra effort with the playtest to rebuild trust with the core fans.

The game came out in the summer of 2014. It became the #1 seller on Amazon and had strong sales for months thereafter.

Critical Role debuted March 2015.

Of course they weren't the real pioneers. There was a previous concerted media outreach and high profile broadcasting of the game. In 2008...
 

9) A significantly reduced release schedule decreased the sense that there was a "wall of books" entry barrier to the game, and focused much more press and player attention on each new product for longer periods of time to build anticipation rather than spreading attention out over many products;
That and there's less competition. If a new gamer can buy just one book, it will be the PHB. They can't get a copy of PHB2 for their character and rely on the rest of the group for the rules to play, or buy a book the table doesn't already have.
 

TarionzCousin

Second Most Angelic Devil Ever
Yes, because that is what we had been discussing.

This is beyond disingenous, but if you really wanted to derail the thread then you have succeeded in that at least.
Are you saying that Mistwell "derailed the thread" by trying to get back to the original topic of the thread after you brought up something else and actually derailed the thread?
 




jeffh

Adventurer
1978: AD&D 1e


"Although the masculine form of appellation is typically used when listing the level titles of the various types of characters, these names can easily be changed to the feminine if desired. This is fantasy -- what's in a name? in all but a few cases sex makes no difference to ability!"

Under the heading: The Game in the introduction.
Later in the introduction under: Creating the Player Character
"(after rolling stats)...The player then decides what race the character is, what the character's class is, the alignment of the character, and what the character's name is to be."

No mention of choosing sex or gender.

There are also restrictions on female characters (no restrictions for male characters). If you are a woman and sitting down to play some 1e AD&D and rolled an 18 for your strength your options are limited to human and half-orc. No dwarf, elf, gnome, etc. for you. And if you play a fighter you will be penalized on your bonus strength roll.
In other words, the rules are silent on how you choose your character's gender.

The correct conclusion to draw from this is that they mean the obvious common-sensical thing, i.e. that you get to choose your character's gender, not that they mean something completely bizarre that you made up, i.e. that the gender must match the player's. If he meant the latter, I would expect him to have explicitly stated that somewhere; to infer it from his silence is, well, extremely strange to put it in the kindest way I can.

Granted, Gygax didn't have a very modern game-design sensibility when it comes to thoroughness and clarity, but he wasn't anywhere near that weird. Which is more plausible, that he considered choosing your character's gender so obvious it didn't require stating, as indeed most people clearly consider it to be, or that he intended some completely off-the-wall limitation on it that he never comes anywhere close to spelling out?
 

pemerton

Legend
Looking at 1e and 2e, they weren't overly sexist per se. They didn't treat women as secondary or inferior so much as forgot women even existed half the time. (Which is a whole other type of sexism.)
I think 2nd ed's use of the masculine pronoun exclusively is overtly sexist.

I also think it's more significant than the STR caps in AD&D. Caps are a mechanical element that is easily ignored (just as many people ignored the racial level caps); the language used by the authors of the game to speak to their audience is (in my view) a far bigger signal as to whether or not certain people are expected to be members of that audience.

But 1st ed AD&d is also sexist - besides the STR caps, for instance, there's the notorious harlot table in the DMG. Other examples could be given without leaving the core books, but that's probably enough.

D&D and how it approaches sex and gender over the last 35 years

<snip>

There are also restrictions on female characters (no restrictions for male characters). If you are a woman and sitting down to play some 1e AD&D and rolled an 18 for your strength your options are limited to human and half-orc. No dwarf, elf, gnome, etc. for you. And if you play a fighter you will be penalized on your bonus strength roll.
I think the better description of the situation would be this: if you roll 18 for STR and want to play a woman dwarf, elf, halfing or gnome you have to reduce that STR score. You're not prohibited from playing such a character.

And it's still not true to say that a human or half-orc woman fighter has a penalty on the percentile STR roll. Rather, there's a cap.

I take it you are also now agreeing that there was never a rule that PCs had to be the same sex/gender as their player.

It should be noted that this edition of D&D spends a lot more space than others on character background and personality.
Thereby continuing a trend - the 4e PHB had much more space on those topics than any earlier edition.

A distinction is made between sex and gender and there is a mention of sexual orientation as something to consider in character creation. The player is also now allowed to make a genderqueer or non-gendered character. The simplicity of the part regarding sexual orientation allows for asexual characters too.
I don't know in what way you think that players of earlier editions were forbidden to make non-gendered, genderqueer, intersex and/or asexual PCs.

It is true that, unlike 5e, the rules didn't mention these possibilities. But they certainly didn't forbid them.

You don't think being inclusive has impacted sales of 5e? I don't think it is the only factor, but I do think it is a major one.
It is really very hard to speculate about this without detailed sales and market information.

Did the 4e halflings - the most "inclusive" presentation I can think of ever of a PC race in a D&D edition - have a significant impact on sales to players of colour? I think speculation is next to impossible here - apart from anything else, many minority consumers of culture are relatively accustomed/resigned to purchasing products that assume a normal other than them.
 

Sadras

Legend
You don't think being inclusive has impacted sales of 5e?

When your inclusive comes to gender/intersex and/or any other PC-acceptable word? No!

It happened because there are people playing RPGs now that didn't feel comfortable or welcome to do so before.

Again, No!
You're laying everything at the door of WoTC and 5e, instead of recognising that times have changed, the roleplaying community have evolved and nerd culture is at an all time high making it more socially acceptable...
The books don't play the role you think they do.
 

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