• NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.

New Sorcerer Archetype: Instinctual

I'm good on what you said in Points 1 and 2, however.

Is not a Staff of the Magi like a Legendary (and Optional) Item? You're incorporating a setback from a Legendary Item into what feels like a feature that should be used rather frequently when encountering Spellcasters.

Also, yes, you won't eat Magic when you're at your Sorcery Point Cap, but what about if you don't know what the spell being cast is, you just instinctively (see what I did there?) "I eat it!", and that puts you only 1 or 2 points over your Max? And then fail an Int Save that you are, again, not that good at?

I get the idea of punishing the idea of just trying to stay at your SP cap without relying on the Made of Magic feature, which should be used a lot more often, it seems. But Feeblemind basically ends your character. 30 days of a 1 Charisma, your primary stat, if you fail the Save? 30 days or a 5th Level spell from a Divine Caster if one happens to be in the party, which is not a guarantee? ----, a Cleric makes this setback trivial, but the absence of one makes this devastating. All because you accidentally absorbed a Chain Lightning when you thought it was Lightning Bolt?

Again, not only does this give you back SP, but it's defensive, it stops you from taking XdX damage or a debilitating effect like Blind. I'd honestly rather a punishment, a lesser punishment, but making this like a once per Short / Long Rest kinda deal rather than "You can do this forever but you basically write yourself out of the game if you misjudge". I wouldn't have such an issue with this if no other class (to my knowledge) actively hurt you like this.

[thinks, does some math]

It turns out that Feeblemind, even from a lowish spell DC, is much harder for a sorcerer to overcome than even I was expecting. With Int 12 and the Lucky feat, a sorcerer would have a 51% chance of passing the initial save against DC 16 (Chain Lightning) Feeblemind, which I'm fine with--but then he'd have -5 to his Int saves after that and be totally unable to ever recover. That's harsher than I intended.

I do want serious and relatively long-term consequences, something that will take you out of the current adventure, but not something that makes it impossible to ever recover. I want your brains scrambled for weeks, not decades. Make it a DC (5 + spell level) save instead (now you have an 80% chance of making the initial save, counting Lucky, and a 51% chance per re-save to recover), and we'll let you re-save every week.

New text: "If this would take you above your sorcery point maximum, lose the extra points and suffer the effects of a Feeblemind spell, DC 5 + (level of the absorbed spell), except that you may repeat the saving throw to end the effect every 7 days instead of every 30." Not the most elegant wording I'm afraid, but gives what I'm looking for.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Love this idea Hemlock! I have a couple of suggestions for it.

[Instinctive Casting] Starting at first level, you have no need for verbal, somatic, or material components when casting your sorcerer spells.


[Made of Magic] Starting at sixth level, you can use your physical reserves to fuel your magic. When you are in your own body and form, you can convert HP to sorcery points as a bonus action on a 1:1 basis. Your HP maximum is reduced by the same amount. Once reduced, your HP maximum cannot be restored by any means except rest. You regain points equal to your Charisma modifier (with a minimum of +1) each time you complete a long rest.

Instinctive Casting - Perhaps the instinctive caster is not allowed to learn spells that have a material component with a GP equivalent cost. Instead, perhaps they get 1 additional spell known at 1st, 7th and 13th levels. The spell at 7th can be from the Warlock list, and the spell at 13th can be from the Wizard list. It may be enough just to give them the extra known spell at 1, 7 and 13, but I like the idea that since they are giving up certain spells, they get access to a few more choices.

Made of Magic - What if they spend Hit Die for this instead? In combat, they can spend 1 die as a bonus action and must roll the result. During a short rest, they can spend as many die as they have and can reroll a result of 1 or 2. I think this makes for an interesting decision point between healing themselves and hurting others more, and may be easier to track on the character sheet.
 

New text: "If this would take you above your sorcery point maximum, lose the extra points and suffer the effects of a Feeblemind spell, DC 5 + (level of the absorbed spell), except that you may repeat the saving throw to end the effect every 7 days instead of every 30." Not the most elegant wording I'm afraid, but gives what I'm looking for.

This is a good compromise. Keeps you on your toes because you don't want to trigger this ability unless you're absolutely sure you won't suffer the setback ... but the Setback is at least recoverable. Horribly crippling, but recoverable.

I'm still unsure if I enjoy the idea of a feature that, again, hurts your character more than like a Barbarian's Frenzy exhaustion or the DMG Blood Hunter's Blood Rites, especially since this class is already burning Max HP to function, and an Arcane Trickster gets something somewhat similar once per day ...

But the lesser DC (max of what, 14?) helps offset this, so again, good compromise.
 

I'm not opposed to that. In fact, double-casting was my original intention (because Action Surge clearly establishes that double casting is valuable but not game-breaking), and it wasn't until I actually wrote out the fluff text that I decided it sounded more like double concentration than double casting. But really I don't have a strong opinion either way.



I think capstones and near-capstones are important primarily as temptations/aspirations. The fact that a Moon Druid can become an Onion Druid is an excellent reason not to multiclass a level or two of Rogue or Barbarian! Likewise, it's really painful as a Bard to take more than two levels of any other class, because then you lose all hope of Wish. The Fighter capstone is excellent too (IMO), but you can make up the damage by multiclassing Rogue, so Fighter 11/Swashbuckler 9 is a viable competitor IMO to Fighter 20. Ideally, I'd like all the capstones in the game to be good enough that it's always a painful dilemma to multiclass at all.

Anyway, if you're going to do something as foundational as "let the sorcerer pick from other spell lists," I'd actually rather build that into the base sorcerer chassis as a variant rule than into a subclass. It just doesn't feel like a subclass thing to me--it feels like a statement about sorcerers in general, which perhaps ought to be its own thread, but I'll throw out an idea anyway:

What if each sorcerer picks a school of magic as his focus, and is then able to learn spells freely from that school, from any class list? BTW that would interact poorly with the proposal in this thread--I would definitely rewrite Instinctive Magic at any table where this were a thing.

That makes the Sorcerer kind of the Warlock in that it would have two separate decision points: origin and focus, akin to the warlock's pact and boon. The intent would be to open up sorcerer versatility wide open ("there's nothing that a sorcerer can't do, in principle") while still keeping actual restrictions on PCs tight enough to avoid overshadowing bards and wizards. Any given sorcerer is still only going to have maybe 25% of the spells they'd really like to have on their list, but you no longer have to answer the question "why is summoning with sorcery inexplicably not a thing?"

Well, I have some stories and in them I like to describe the way things work, like in one there is a power that is explicitly the full opposite of magic and they interact in strange ways, or in other certain creatures are basically immature angels, ... but I'm babbling. So in short:

In stories focusing on witches, each witch is unique with magic being a reflection of her personality. But they can be roughly grouped according to the things they normally do (I have used these guidelines to help players pick thematic stuff for a campaign, just short of actually writing the speciffic spell lists):

Attuners: Masters of a single element/thing. Cannot do much with things not related to their element, but they can do almost anything with their element (Metal, wood, fabric, fire, water, toys, books, whatever)
Dreamers: They are masters of the ethereal stuff, be it dreams, thoughts, illusions, visions and stuff. But have a hard time affecting physical things
Shapers/manifesters: They create and manifest things, from illusions, spirits to physical items -but not necessarily mundane items- and creatures. Controlling and breaking stuff is another story.
Controllers: They won't create anything ex-nihilo, but can manipulate and bend whatever thing they wish
Warpers: They basically transmute, alter, warp, crush mater and space.

Each of these things is basically a different spell list, maybe attuners is many similar spell lists instead. The advantage to schools is that schools are explicative but not necessarily thematic -and we don't need yet another way the sorcerer is like a wizard mini-. This way we also have more balanced lists that allow certain flexibility.

For example Controllers will know certain transmutation spells related to manipulation while warpers those related to transform stuff but won''t know the enchantment spells that dreamers and controllers do. in turn dreamers can do illusions just like shapers, but not summonings (which they will have in common with warpers.) Attuners on the other hand can do basically anything as long as it is related to their attuned element.
 

Instinctive Casting - Perhaps the instinctive caster is not allowed to learn spells that have a material component with a GP equivalent cost. Instead, perhaps they get 1 additional spell known at 1st, 7th and 13th levels. The spell at 7th can be from the Warlock list, and the spell at 13th can be from the Wizard list. It may be enough just to give them the extra known spell at 1, 7 and 13, but I like the idea that since they are giving up certain spells, they get access to a few more choices.

After thinking it over, I believe I have two issues with this approach:

(1) It's a straight power gain, and I'm trying to avoid making homebrew that's obviously better than PHB material. You're giving up a handful of spells (chosen haphazardly, since there's no apparently rhyme or reason to which spells require material components--Clairvoyance obviously doesn't have material components for balance reasons) and in exchange you gain a sizable boost to both spells known and the size of your spell list. This probably would make this archetype a dominant choice. My powergamer instincts certainly think so, anyway. Fighter 1/Warlock 2/Instinctual Sorcerer X would become my go-to sorlock specification, and I don't want that to be the case.

I actually want the Instinctual Sorlock to be mostly fluff. Personally I probably wouldn't use any of its abilities while playing except "I shoot Fire Bolt out of my eyes!"/"I make a spider-man gesture and a Web shoots out to ensnare the orcs". Made of Magic would only get used for character-defining moments of heroic sacrifice, and Magic Eater's main contribution would be to make me spend sorcery points early and often to stay hungry just in case. But free Warlock and Wizard spells? I would use those all the time. (Fear and Wall of Force spring immediately to mind, although Magic Jar is competitive too, especially with my high Charisma save.)

(2) Minor issue, but I don't see how to word it concisely, which hints to me that it may be conceptually complicated too. It would at least triple the word count of Instinctive Casting.

Made of Magic - What if they spend Hit Die for this instead? In combat, they can spend 1 die as a bonus action and must roll the result. During a short rest, they can spend as many die as they have and can reroll a result of 1 or 2. I think this makes for an interesting decision point between healing themselves and hurting others more, and may be easier to track on the character sheet.

Possibly. I'm not 100% happy with Made of Magic, partly because of word count issue and partly because it introduces a new mechanic. It might be simpler to let them burn Constitution instead of HP, and let Con come back at a rate of one per long rest.
 

This is a good compromise. Keeps you on your toes because you don't want to trigger this ability unless you're absolutely sure you won't suffer the setback ... but the Setback is at least recoverable. Horribly crippling, but recoverable.

I'm still unsure if I enjoy the idea of a feature that, again, hurts your character more than like a Barbarian's Frenzy exhaustion or the DMG Blood Hunter's Blood Rites, especially since this class is already burning Max HP to function, and an Arcane Trickster gets something somewhat similar once per day ...

But the lesser DC (max of what, 14?) helps offset this, so again, good compromise.

As an aside:

It might be just my biases, but I don't think you should be burning max HP to function. Having the ability to burn your physical reserves might let you cut it closer than otherwise (you can be sneaking around in the Orc Caves of Doom with only two spell slots left, and still be far less nervous than a wizard would be under the same conditions) but your actual sorcery points and spell slots are still your primary resource.

Barbarian's Frenzy exhaustion is mandatory, happens every time. Feeblemind should happen, well, virtually never. So I don't see the drawbacks as comparable, except for the obvious similarity that Greater Restoration fixes either of them.
 


A feature that could be nice.

Choose a sorcerer spell you dont know. Y[FONT=&quot]ou can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell's level to cast it once.
You need to have a spell slot availabe for that spell.



[/FONT]
 

[MENTION=6787650]Hemlock[/MENTION]

1 - Yeah, I thought it might be a bit overboard, and really, getting to use subtle spell on every spell cast probably makes up for the few spells you would no longer have access to.

2 - I think Con is better than HP, but I still like the Hit Die solution since it's grounded in a mechanic that already exists. To really mirror it, you could just make it so that on a short rest, the Instinctive Sorcerer can spend hit die to recover sorcery points instead of hit points, and leave it at that. Simple, effective, and likely maddening for the player to decide what they want to do :)

I am 100% going to offer a version of this archetype in my campaign. I think it really captures the mutant superhero feel.
 


Into the Woods

Remove ads

Top