I'm not sure what you're talking about but using and taking reaction is no different and has nothing to do with "a melee weapon attack" vs " an attack with a melee weapon", which BTW are no different neither as per the Devs (
@JeremyECrawford A melee weapon attack is a melee attack with a weapon).
While an "attack with a melee weapon requires a melee weapon", but it's not necessarly a melee attack. See my point now?
Spell casting time reaction is the action used and is no different than the reaction used to make an OA, just like a casting time of 1 action is no different than the 1 action you use to take the Attack action. You insist on difference that i believe just aren't there.
Nothing you quoted says reactions can't interrupt an action and has to be taken after it. It says trigger which is not the same thing and doesn't necessarily mean an action since it can be any perceiveable circumstances.
So i will ask again, can you quote the rules where you say reactions can't interrupt actions is written?
So i will ask... where does it say a reaction can? "If the reaction interrupts another creature's turn, that creature can continue its turn right after the reaction." So we know for sure it can interrupt a TURN, be we do not know if it can interrupt an action, right? I think something important like that would be stated there, if it could apply to all reactions!
Let's look at the ONLY 2 examples of reactions that DO interrupt something...
Counterspell and AoO.
AoO : "The attack interrupts the provoking creature's movement, occurring right before the creature leaves your reach."
Counterspell : " You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell."
Good! 2 Cases in that can interrupt! Let's look at another! I'll let you guess which one it is...
"When a creature within 5 feet of you casts a spell, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against that creature."
And suddenly there's no interruption going on, except for the turn.
So, BY FACTS, unless there's a specific description the rule holds...
You cannot interrupt anything unless a specific description states so. Are we clear now?
Good, because the other point is that the Ready action let's you fire your prepared Action (in combat) or move for 30' iirc using your reaction. What makes use of a reaction able to interrupt anything? The fact that you use a reaction to interrupt a TURN. And that's it. That said, you are using a reaction, but what you are taking is the Action you prepared.
That would be nice, but neither the game nor real life is so convenient. If the universe conspired to make these things so clear then there would be no police shootings except where everyone agreed that he was definitely, without doubt, 'going for his gun'.
And this how exactly relates to the rules? It doesn't since the police isn't taking the "Ready" action, and is not in a tabletop game. So, define clearly "go for the gun" please. Because the rule says so.
Okay. PHB p203, under the overall title, 'Casting A Spell', the subsection entitled, 'Components' says: "A spell's components are the physical requirements you must meet in order to cast it.....If you can't (or, for whatever reason, don't) provide one or more of a spell's components, you are unable to cast the spell."
i see no mention of start, end or even casting. You are checked BEFORE the Action is taken. If you had no materials, you would not take the action, and your trigger, no matter what will not fire.
In other words, the VSM components are the 'cause', and the spell effect is the 'effect'. Cause must come before effect. The VSM components must be begun and completed/ended before the spell effect/duration begins.
No. We know the components are part of the spellcasting process. We do not know if it's in the beginning, in the end, or anywhere in between. WE HAVE NO CLARITY. We just know that we are prevented from taking the Action if we miss some of them or there are condition that prevents their appearance. Your "before" and "after" are absolutelty arbitrary, and a RULING, not a RULE.
This means that 'casting a spell' is a perceivably separate thing to the 'spell effect'. We know that saying the magic words, waving a hand around and retrieving bat poop must be started and completed, and during that process the spell itself cannot have even begun, because at any time before the casting process is complete then the VSM components have not (yet) been provided.
No, we know that the casting of a spell is different from the spell effect because one is an action, and the other is part of the description of what that action actually does. By your reasoning, you could interrupt between the attacks and the actual damage caused by reading an action. Because one is the action and the other is in the description of what an action does. The fact that one is also the outcome, it's absolutely IRRELEVANT, since "the trigger has to end" includes everything in the description of the action interrupted.
And that means that you can perceive someone in the process of providing those VSM components in the form of mystic words and gestures, and therefore this process is a valid perceivable trigger for either counterspell or a Readied action, quite separately from the spell effect itself.
Counterspell allows you to interrupt the trigger, a Ready action EXPLICITLY states YOU CAN'T. Providing the components is, yet again NOT A CLEAR TRIGGER, so invalid for readied actions, since we do not know WHEN it does happen. We know that it happens as part of the spellcasting process. We know we must have them to take the Cast a Spell Action, we do not know when. You might state your RULING, but again, that's not the RULE.
There is absolutely no requirement for the Readier to perceive the VSM components underway and force him to wait not only until the VSM components have been completed but also until a completely different perceivable trigger (the spell effect itself) begins.
The fact that the spell effect might be a trigger is nowhere in question. The problem is that the providing the components is in question, as we do not know WHEN. IT'S NOT A CLEAR TRIGGER. If we take the Action as a whole, the spell effect is still part of the Cast a Spell Action, as it's part of the spell you are casting. As are the components required.
PHB p193, the Ready Action: "Sometimes you want to get the jump on a foe or wait for a particular circumstance before you act....First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your reaction. Then, you choose what action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your speed in response to it."
Although your response to the trigger may be an Action In Combat, it doesn't have to be. It could be a move, or it could be something that doesn't require an Action In Combat, like 'say a code phrase' or 'pull the lever'.
I hate quoting myself, but...
No, and it has not to be. It can be movement, for example. It can also be "the action that has no name and it's really not an Use Object action" that lets you activate a magic item.
Hopefully you understand that i'm using "action" instead of "occurrence" as a colloquial term. Not the best choice prehaps, but i'm not a native speaker. Does it change anything? No, i never meant Action in Combat, and hopefully we are clear now that i stated it. Twice.
Also, pulling a lever is an Action in Combat. The Use an Object action. And let's skip the fact that you might be able to talk even without reading the action "i talk to say x"... (because you have to state what are you going to say when you take the Ready action) because i do not want to go check if those are free actions that can be taken outside of your turn or not, and with a reaction or not, by the rules. Not the point of the thread.
More importantly for this discussion than what the response can be is what the trigger can be. The trigger can be any perceivable circumstance! Perceivable to the Readier, of course. Your assertion that the perceivable circumstance must be an Action In Combat is simply untrue. Your assertion that an Action In Combat may not be interrupted by a Readied action is simply untrue.
First part, see above and last post. Second part, no it isn't. It might be a RULING by my part, but so is YOURS. Mine, at least, has backups.
An Action In Combat may be made up of a number of discrete, perceivable steps, and any one of those steps is a valid perceivable circumstance that you can use as the trigger; the 'trigger' is not limited to being a complete Action In Combat from start to finish.
And we AGREE ON THIS. I won't quote me again, so go back to my last post and how i said the RULES stated one thing, and MY RULING was different, in regards to "drawing a weapon". I do not agree with you in your breakdown of the "casting a spell", since it's arbitrary on something that it's unclear to begin with, and thus NOT A VALID TRIGGER. As is the "go for the gun" example.
You ask for quotes and I've provided them. If you still assert that it is impossible to use a perceivable trigger unless you wait until the whole Action In Combat is complete, quote it. The Ready action itself just requires that the trigger finishes, not an entire Action In Combat.
I asked for quotes, and did not recieve anything but something completely unrelated, like i did for Plaguescarred last post. Mine was a honest mistake, i corrected it in this post. You still have not described HOW, in what steps, which sequence of actions comes first, what are the gestures, what does the fox... err.. the caster say, how much time does it take... you know, HOW. And the rules where this is stated as "rule". Not what are the requirements to cast.
We also have counterspell, which demonstrates that the casting process (VSM components) is perceivable as a separate entity to the spell effect that those components will cause if completed.
We also have Counterspell, that we know only asks for a spell beign cast, that is not a readied action, so does not follow the same rules, that is also an "exception" to the reaction rules, stating clearly that it can interrupt an action while reactions are only stated to be able to interrupt turns. Apples to Oranges.
So provide your quotes, and we will weigh any that you provide against those already provided, and we can judge which case stands up to scrutiny.
YOU ARE NOT IN CHARGE in relation to what is right and what is wrong. You can hear my opinion, discuss with me and try to understand what i mean. You can make an opinion of me, you can choose to ignore what i say, disagree with me and have the option to state your disagreement. You are under law, rules of the forum, moderator action and many other things. I'm not under your scritiny as if your word was law. I'll try to stay as civil as possible, i might fail to do so, voluntarly or not, and you have the option to ask me to moderate myself and to report my behaviour. You have many right, but you are not in charge.
But is is a perceivable circumstance, a valid trigger, as demonstrated by counterspell.
The trigger for counterspell is "a spell that is being cast". I think this is the twelfth... twelf... 12th (how do you spell it?) time i'm going to say this: Counterspell is not a "Ready" action. It does not follow the same rules. It states in its description that it's allowed to interrupt a spell that is being cast, and this does not make anything else but Counterspell able to interrupt spells being cast. It still has nothing to do with your separation of components, spell effects... See above.
PHB p203, as described above.
Not what i asked for.
Quote the rule which says that a readied action must wait until an entire Action In Combat is complete when it wasn't even the entire Action In Combat that was the trigger.
See above. As i never said this. I used trigger and action interchangeably, true, but i NEVER stated that it required an Action, or an Action in Combat. and i meant action as "something you do", and thought it was clear that i did not imply "Action in Combat", expecially since last post, when i said it straight after your first comment.
Hopefully this makes my points clear. I think we should refrain to further take what it seems to be more or less a back and forth between us three here in the public thread unless there's some point you think there's something else to be discussed in this thread of importance of the topic at hand. I feel like we have been derailing somewhat (or a whole lot) and my posts in particular are becoming longer and longer. If you want, we can continue with private messaging or something else even on the points that hav eno bearing here
And yeah i Googled Twelfth.
Edit: added a couple of words
