D&D 5E Tweak Instant Cure spells to fix whack-a-mole

[CapnZapp]

1. The logical course of action is not the only course taken. Enemies can be stupid, single minded, arrogant, honorable etc.
2. If the group of enemies have a different objective (survive, kill the PCs, kill one specific PC, get some loot, delay the PCs, capture the PCs, die a glorious death in battle or something else), then they will take different courses of action.
3. Enemies do not have perfect information. Without perfect information you cannot always execute the logical course of action, especially against a group of foes as diverse as adventurers. Adventurers get advantage of more-or-less knowing how tough their foes are simply by looking at them and having previously encountered them, monsters typically do not.
4. The tactical situation will dictate what is logical. If that last monster only has the option (because of movement, or crowd control or whatever) of attacking the AC 25 paladin with disadvantage, then maybe have him stab the fallen guy instead.

Now, I don't know about you, but I think that if a campaign is full of identical groups of monsters, consistantly with the same tactical situation, the same disposition, the same goals and all acting on perfect information, that's going to get tedious.

Also, you're right. If you've got a group of goblins, why would they keep playing whack a mole? Really, why would they? Are they just aware that their role is to suck and then die?

Whack a mole is only beneficial if someone who is downed is 'safe'. The penalties for misjudging that are dire. All you have to do is not make it a guaranteed state of affairs, and whack a mole becomes a losing game.

Again, lots of words when it is so much easier to simply rescind the design decision to go with "no negative hit points".

All this discussion and not a single word on upsides with that decision. So why stick to it, when it forces you, if not to change monster behavior at your table, to write long forum posts...?

I guess I'm asking you to reevaluate if the RAW really is worth defending that much.

 

[CapnZapp]

Again, in my actual play experience, adding the "count down to -10" replacement rule completely solves the issues the OP is having (and me too) in a simple and straight-forward manner

While still not making healing-the-fallen so very expensive that you get that as a new problem (which could happen if you counted down to negative max hp).

Or added an administrative headache (which could happen if you went the "count down to negative Constitution score", because keeping track of whether Bob could go to -12 while Joe goes down to -14 adds no practical value, and makes the rule a nightmare when applied to NPCs)

At least to me, dropping this new "no negative hp" idea was an easy and pain-free decision.

It really isn't such a big issue *shrug*

 

[jasper]

...Why would one group of goblins choose to keep playing whack-a-mole, while another group of goblins decides to play for keeps? What is the substantive difference between these two groups that would cause them to make such different decisions, when presented with similar information?...
Gabby Goblin. Last will and testament. I Gabby leaving nothing to my family. As the murder hobos of Merric the mercy the less, Saelorn the slimy, and Capt zapp the zapping wizard are two rooms away and murdering my kin folk. Beware these.
aaaaa
aaaa
rrrrr
ggggg
hhh
aaaa.
Dm you find 5 gp on the goblin and a note which is the last will for the goblin.
Saelorn, "take the loot toss the note".

 

[Satyrn]

And/or the cost of healing in slot or action being too high...

...or the healer being a jerk.

Both of those apply to my cleric of Erythnul.

I do keep healing word prepped so I can stabilize a fallen ally from afar as a bonus action (yes, it actually heals them, too, but that's not why I use it), and revivify as a backup. So the character is a jerk, but me the player not.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Again, lots of words when it is so much easier to simply rescind the design decision to go with "no negative hit points".

The rules are presented as a 'starting place,' but there's no requirement to actually leave that place. Just get'n as comfortable as possible there is legitimate, too, I guess.

Again, in my actual play experience, adding the "count down to -10" replacement rule completely solves the issues the OP is having (and me too) in a simple and straight-forward manner

Just to be clear, do you just stop counting at -10 but still use death saves, or do PCs die instantly at -10?

Because the latter would seem to swap in a whole different issue.

 

[Sadras]

The time delay in in the healing is IMO unnecessary, I have tried it. Just have intelligent monsters perform coup de grace or let them unleash their full number of attacks on the hero as they are falling, it is more dramatic - ensuring they fail their saves and bleed out like cattle at an abattoir.
Its cruel to be kind

 

[CapnZapp]

Just to be clear, do you just stop counting at -10 but still use death saves, or do PCs die instantly at -10?

The former.

Everything keeps working like in raw, except you count down to -10 instead of 0.

When you have 12 hp and get 19 damage, you're at -7 and dying (instead of at 0 and dying). Making it a good idea to spend something more than just a first level Healing Word if you want to rescue your ally from death saves (and unconciousness).

So, if you're at -7 and dying, and take another 2 points of damage, you go from -7 to -9 (and that counts as a failed death save just as you'd expect).

Instant death also works exactly the same: if you have 15 hp maximum, you die if you take 15 damage when you are already at zero or below.

The only change is that you keep track of negative hit points down to -10.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Gabby Goblin. Last will and testament.

See, you're definitely playing this goblin as more of a person and less of a monster, but I'm guessing that's how you play most goblins in your world. The difference between any two goblins in your world is probably smaller than the difference between goblins in your world and goblins in my world.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Everything keeps working like in raw, except you count down to -10 instead of 0.

Have you considered the (perhaps simpler) solution where unconscious characters merely suffer a -10 penalty to healing received?

I'm having some trouble with visualizing how your way works within the world. It seems like HP should either keep counting down until you die at -HP, or stop being counted at zero.

Or else, the easiest way of solving the problem presented in this thread is to treat PCs as monsters are often treated, and have them die at zero. It worked well in older editions.

 

[Umbran]

I guess I'm asking you to reevaluate if the RAW really is worth defending that much.

Please note that disagreeing with you on a particular point does not constitute, "defending the RAW," in a general sense. You are (perhaps unwittingly) attributing to the other person a position they haven't actually taken, and are then suggesting that position that they didn't actually take is not well considered. This is a classic, "strawman argument".

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