D&D 5E Let's Read: Volo's Monsters

[fuindordm]

I agree, this is a great implementation of the nilbog concept.
[MENTION=53176]Leatherhead[/MENTION], "Why would a hobgoblin horde bother with goblins?" I can think of several rationalizations, from religious duty to the need for low-value troops to absorb the first shock of an assault, but I think the main reason is probably logistics. The goblin component is an endless supply of people to do the grunt work of the camp, and as long as you accord the goblin "specials" a small measure of respect, the rest of them will stay in line. A prideful hobgoblin warrior can't be asked to dig latrines, and a bugbear wouldn't understand the need. Goblins will get it done, with the added bonus that one will probably fall into the hole.

Cheers,
Ben

 

[dave2008]

Well you start with a Legendary CR26+ Gargantuan Siege Monster, make an ability that says it counts as being larger than Gargantuan for any ability that takes size into consideration, give it some mind-flayer powers and tentacle attacks, some kind of trample ability, and in this case some add in some Ice elemental powers one to blot out the sun and probably an aura of Brain-freeze or something like that.

The real trick is figuring out how the mechanics of fighting a creature that is bigger than most towns are. Stabbing it in the toe till it dies is hardly going to be immersive. Though making a separate stat block for every limb might work, that way you could disable the legs, and somehow manage to crawl up the torso, getting rid of the arms and tentacles, to finally assault the thing's brain and kill it.

Or you could just pull out a deus ex machina, that's how they offed him in the first place.

This thread has inspired me to make a stat block for him. I have already made several "colossal" monsters over at my 5e Epic Updates thread, so I have a good template. I would make him in parts similar to your suggestion Leatherhead, I have done a few that way already.

 

[Charles Rampant]

Goblins have numbers. The side with the most soldiers is likely to win. They may be crap soldiers, but if they're at the back of the army and help to intimidate the other side through sheer numbers, that won't matter. Plus, the downsides - Nilbogs, Bargheists - are pretty minor, in the grand scheme of things.

A Goblinoid campaign is a solid concept. You've got a lot of roleplaying potential in the relationship between the three races.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

If I was a hobgoblin warlord, I would sic the goblins on someplace I wanted to conquer in 2-3 years. Sabotage and asymmetrical warfare will keep the local militia occupied and ill-equipped to handle the iron legions. And if a few of those goblins are bright enough to note tactically useful information during this time (and pass it on to their hobgoblin overlords), all the better.

Long-term planning: it isn't just for PC's and magic item wish lists.

 

[Chaosmancer]

See, I have a personal beef with Goblins in 5e, and that stems almost directly from the fact that they are portrayed as sniveling, stupid, cowards.

I was so fed up with them, that before I got the 5e MM I was determined to change a few things to make them a more worthy foe. After the book came out, I got to work.

And all I had to do was max their hp, improve their armor a hair and increase their mental stats above the negatives


One "problem" with DnD is the sense of how threatening something actually is. We look at manticores and the like and think "Not nearly enough, a single one of these guys will get stompled by a party of 5, we need to up the ante"


Let's take a group of NPC soldiers though, like 5 guards. Using average stats they have 11 hp to the goblins 7, they can take another hit or two before going down, and their AC is rather similiar, with the guards having better gear. They only have a +3 to hit for 1d6+1 though, while goblins come in at +4 for 1d6+2

In a white room with no cover, it could be a close fight. However, set up an urban warfare or forest encounter, and those guards are dead.

Nimble Escape. Bonus action to hide after every attack. Bonus action disengage if the enemy is next to them. Equip a squad of goblins with bows and slightly better armor, and they will be death to your average militia. Heck, I've got players who are still terrified of the little buggers after fighting them in a warehouse full of nooks and crannies. It does depend on how hiding in combat ends up working, but if they can hide and move between cover, they are incredibly difficult to deal with. Bugbears hit harder from ambushes, but once they are out in the open, they tend to stay there. Goblins are constantly kiting and fading in and out of the fight, and their smaller size means it is easier for them to sneak around unnoticed. Add in some of their magic-using alternatives, and give them a cleric which seems obvious, and I could probably take out even a 5th level party with goblins. They are vicious.


As for Nilbog (I will never be able to say that name without thinking of Worm ) don't forget about Nilbogism, anyone who wants to damage it in anyway, must succeed a Charisma check DC 12, or be charmed and instead spend their entire turn praising the creature instead. And it says damage, so that includes casting AOE spells, making attacks, throwing things at the ceiling to drop rocks on them. If you intend the creature harm, save vs groveling. That will have players tearing their hair out as well.

 

[dave2008]

One "problem" with DnD is the sense of how threatening something actually is. We look at manticores and the like and think "Not nearly enough, a single one of these guys will get stompled by a party of 5, we need to up the ante"


Let's take a group of NPC soldiers though, like 5 guards. Using average stats they have 11 hp to the goblins 7, they can take another hit or two before going down, and their AC is rather similiar, with the guards having better gear. They only have a +3 to hit for 1d6+1 though, while goblins come in at +4 for 1d6+2

In a white room with no cover, it could be a close fight. However, set up an urban warfare or forest encounter, and those guards are dead.

That is an interesting point. In terms of world building the goblin (or any monster) should be compared to the typical humanoid / human, not the PCs. They are much scarier from that perspective.

 

[Leatherhead]

This thread has inspired me to make a stat block for him. I have already made several "colossal" monsters over at my 5e Epic Updates thread, so I have a good template. I would make him in parts similar to your suggestion Leatherhead, I have done a few that way already.

Oh nifty, let me know what you come up with!

 

[dave2008]

Oh nifty, let me know what you come up with!

Will do!

 

[Charles Rampant]

As for Nilbog (I will never be able to say that name without thinking of Worm ) don't forget about Nilbogism, anyone who wants to damage it in anyway, must succeed a Charisma check DC 12, or be charmed and instead spend their entire turn praising the creature instead. And it says damage, so that includes casting AOE spells, making attacks, throwing things at the ceiling to drop rocks on them. If you intend the creature harm, save vs groveling. That will have players tearing their hair out as well.

Good lord, how did I manage to overlook that feature? Clearly the Nilbog charmed me...

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Goblins have numbers. The side with the most soldiers is likely to win. They may be crap soldiers, but if they're at the back of the army and help to intimidate the other side through sheer numbers, that won't matter. Plus, the downsides - Nilbogs, Bargheists - are pretty minor, in the grand scheme of things.

A Goblinoid campaign is a solid concept. You've got a lot of roleplaying potential in the relationship between the three races.

In 5E, goblins are fantastic soldiers. They are more accurate than hobgoblins (+4 to hit vs. +3), have Stealth Expertise and a bonus action Hide/Disengage, and they do good damage with their shortbows. Why wouldn't you want a bunch of goblin skirmishers in your army?