D&D 5E Concentration while Short Resting

[ThePolarBear]

Can you show me where the rules say what ends a long rest?

Nowhere. Unless you consider that you have to apply common sense.
If we really want to go into reading deep: When a new day begins for long rests, with "day" being "adventuring day".
For short rests: When you have finished what you were doing to take a breather.

Can't really say why this question is relevant. Can you explain?

No, I haven't, and I won't.

You are missing the other possible outcome; The player actually listens to me when I explain how resting works, and as a result finishes a long rest, casts hex, actually does something that he can't do while taking a long rest, and takes a short rest at a later point where it is distinct - both in and out of character - from the prior long rest.

Something like casting a spell that he has no spell slot availlable for? You know, the premise of the situation? The mechanical problem you are ignoring AGAIN is all in that particular situation. Again: Mechanically the rest has to have ended for the spell to be cast. It does not matter if a spell can be cast during a long rest or not: that particular spell could not have been since there would have been no spell slot to cast it. You HAVE to either change the mechanics OR have the rest be complete and over OR not have the player complete the rest in the first place.

There's no "the player understand" scenario. It's not part of the equation. It's a possible outcome only because you force an impossible choice on the player: "My way or My way". No choice at all, no matter what the rules actually say or what the player wants to do. Your solution is "That's how rules work" but that is not true.

Again, i'm not saying that you are wrong in preventing a player from doing this. The justification does not hold up and the way it's applied creates mechanical issues.

That's the thing you seem to be not understanding; when I am saying "that's not how rest works" I am not prolonging a rest that has ended - I'm pointing out that, rules-wise, a rest hasn't ended until the next thing the character is doing is not something they can do as part of the rest they are already taking.

You ARE prolonging a rest.

Your words:

DM: "That's not how resting works. Because rests are not a specific length in time, they don't end in such a way that you can end one successfully and immediately start another - that is, instead, simply the same rest being longer before it ends."

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...ation-while-Short-Resting/page6#ixzz4XIfuyqXn

You are not prolonging the fact that a character IS RESTING, you are prolonging THE REST.
But the "long rest" is OVER.

Why is this important? Because the fact that are resting is still a thing, how they are resting (and under what resting type that rest falls under) is up into the air. It possibly mechanically changes what "rest" they are taking, how it interacts with things and so on.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Pretty close. One thing I wanted to mention. The rules mention interrupting a rest requiring 1 hour of walking fighting casting etc. In the rules "interrupting a rest" is a different thing than "finishing a long rest". So those rules you quote aren't rules for ending a long rest but for interrupting one.

Once a rest is interrupted "the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it" PHB 186

If that was the case, and a long rest didn't end automatically after eight hours, and there was no way of manually ending a rest that the players could declare, then it would literally be impossible to finish a long rest.

You gain the benefits of a long rest at the end of the long rest. If you don't gain the benefits after eight hours of sleeping, then getting on the road and travelling for an hour would interrupt your long rest attempt, preventing you from gaining any benefits. Even if you'd been resting for a week.

 

[Caliban]

But, both ways are valid because the rules don't define what ends a rest. It leaves that call up to the DM.

Not really, but whatever makes you feel better about. All rules mongering aside, it basically comes down to this: who gets to decide when they are done resting?

My reading of the rules is that the players get to decide. The DM can interrupt their rest, but barring that, the players decide when they are done resting.

Aaron's reading is that the DM decides. The player can ask the DM, but they aren't actually done resting until the DM says yes. He says he bases it upon in-game actions of the PC's, but that's not really what is happening - the PC's have to convince him that they are done resting before he allows them to actually complete the rest.

I think that's incredibly inane, but whatever. This entire argument is mostly pointless and not worth even a fraction of the mental energy people have put into it, myself included.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

I've not got the patience to keep explaining this over and over again, but I'll give one last go at it:

But the "long rest" is OVER.

Not unless the character isn't resting more without having done any adventuring first, it isn't.

...under what resting type that rest falls under is up into the air.

Not at my table. Players say "short rest" or "long rest" when they start - which they have to do because the conditions for interruption each are different - and their rest ends when they are done resting and getting back to the doing of stuff.

The "mechanical issues" you keep attributing to my interpretation are actually the result of you trying to insert your own interpretation and finding that the two are incompatible - and you then erroneously say my justifications of these rules doesn't hold up, when it is factually as fitting a justification as yours is for your own interpretation of the resting rules.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Aaron's reading is that the DM decides.

No, it's not.

My reading is that the players decide, but they can't have the letter of their decision in disagreement with the intent of their decision.

He says he bases it upon in-game actions of the PC's, but that's really what is happening

I've never been more amused by an error of omission before, but yes, you are right - that's really what is happening.

 

[FrogReaver]

But long rests do not end automatically after 8 hours.

PHB 186 "A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long..."

So whatever else you wish to say to justify your playstyle that a long rest ends automatically after 8 hours doesn't change what the rules say. A long rest is at least 8 hours (ie. 8 hours or more). The book explicitly declares a long rest can be more than 8 hours. The book declares you don't get your stuff back until the rest is finished.

I would have no problem playing with a DM that handed out rest benefits after the minimum amount of time required to rest, as I believe it is an elegant resting solution, but it does go against explicit rules.

Don't mistake the DM deciding when a rest ends with no way of manually ending a rest. It's not the same thing.

If the DM ruled that a long rest wasn't over until at least 1 hour on the road after resting then it would be so. I think that's a poor ruling though and if any DM made such a ruling it would be because of a misunderstanding of the rules for interrupting a long rest and confusing that with the explicit conditions that end it.

If that was the case, and a long rest didn't end automatically after eight hours, and there was no way of manually ending a rest that the players could declare, then it would literally be impossible to finish a long rest.]

You gain the benefits of a long rest at the end of the long rest. If you don't gain the benefits after eight hours of sleeping, then getting on the road and travelling for an hour would interrupt your long rest attempt, preventing you from gaining any benefits. Even if you'd been resting for a week.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

But long rests do not end automatically after 8 hours.

I agree that the rules say this. The question, then, is when does it end? If I want to wake up and cast Heroes' Feast before we go out into the Poison Woods, when do I get my spell slot back? That's information that I need to know in order to play my character. Moreover, it's information that my character should know, since they are the ones actually preparing these spells! It's not information that a reasonable DM can keep away from the players.

 

[FrogReaver]

Strawman alert! Strawman alert!

Not really, but whatever makes you feel better about. All rules mongering aside, it basically comes down to this: who gets to decide when they are done resting?

My reading of the rules is that the players get to decide. The DM can interrupt their rest, but barring that, the players decide when they are done resting.

Aaron's reading is that the DM decides. The player can ask the DM, but they aren't actually done resting until the DM says yes. He says he bases it upon in-game actions of the PC's, but that's really what is happening - the PC's have to convince him that they are done resting before he allows them to actually complete the rest.

I think that's incredibly inane, but whatever. This entire argument is mostly pointless and not worth even a fraction of the mental energy people have put into it, myself included.

 

[FrogReaver]

I agree that the rules say this. The question, then, is when does it end? If I want to wake up and cast Heroes' Feast before we go out into the Poison Woods, when do I get my spell slot back? That's information that I need to know in order to play my character. Moreover, it's information that my character should know, since they are the ones actually preparing these spells! It's not information that a reasonable DM can keep away from the players.

Right, since the book is silent on the issue different DM's will have different tests and criteria and rulings for what constitutes the end of a rest.

Mine is that the players would declare it out of game. This allows them to long rest and then short rest immediately after.

Aaron's is slightly more nuanced. It's that the players do it with a declaration of intent but they can't go back on their word and if they do then they never really intended to finish resting in the first place and thus they have been resting the whole time. In his world the characters always gain their abilities back at the end of a long rest and they are always doing something other than resting when they end their rest. Does that answer all your questions about his system?

 

[FrogReaver]

Nowhere. Unless you consider that you have to apply common sense.
If we really want to go into reading deep: When a new day begins for long rests, with "day" being "adventuring day".
For short rests: When you have finished what you were doing to take a breather.

Can't really say why this question is relevant. Can you explain?

Sure. See the bolded in your quote below:

And this is where i mentioned the mechanical problem. You, as a DM, will end up either with a player that cannot cast a spell, or a rest that never ends. How?
The character that the player is playing as has no spell slots free. Now either he has reached the END of the rest and regained his slot - and as such he CAN cast the spell, and then rest again without you saying "that's not how resting works" - or he has no slots and will then proceed to rest until he can cast the spell (and subsequentially again ask for a rest).

As a DM you are completely and absolutely right in denying a rest benefits or to increase the length of the rest required to regain resources or tell the player that the character has had too much resting and can't really relax - too nervous and waiting to go to adventure to really be stress free. Resting is stated to happen in "adventuring days" after all.
But justifying as "that's not how rest works" and prolonging a rest that has ended even if rulewise it has ended it's clearly a modification of what is written.

I do understand what and why you write it. I think it's just a terrible way to handle it since it introduces mechanical issues.

So ummm.....

You mention something about the rules stating a rest has ended and I ask you to help show me where. I'm not sure how such a question couldn't be relevant. I mean pretty much your whole "argument" in the post above was premised on the fact that he was not having a rest end when the rules said it should.

So ummm, you want to show me where the rules say that a long rest ends?