D&D 5E Why do so many DMs use the wrong rules for invisibility?

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Well, to be fair, invisibility kinda is a good way of getting out of combat. For one, it negates all opportunity attacks. So, the wizard drops invisibility and then can move out of combat. At that point, the enemies still know what square he's in, so, they can follow and attack at disadvantage. Then the wizard can move (typically at half speed) and hide, which means now the enemies need to make a check to find which square he's in. Which gives the wizard more time to escape and so on. Add on other abilities that monsters might have, like a teleport or flight, and even at half speed, you can make your position pretty hard to find.

Just want to point out that there's no rule that you need to move at half speed to hide or move silently. The fact that you are spending your Action to Hide rather than Dash is what represents that you're moving slowly and carefully.

 

[Lanefan]

I guess that also means that all rectangles are squares since rectangles can be squares.

Squares can be rectangles. Rectangles may (or might) be squares.

Lan-"are we about to open a can of can canon?"-efan

 

[dco]

That is simply not how the language is used, in practice. If the DM tells you that an enemy can be detected on the far end of the room, then you should take that to mean your character detects an enemy on the far end of the room. It's like asking if you can borrow a pencil; it's not technically the correct question to be asking, but it's how the language works in practice.

As far as the rules are concerned, the Invisible condition tells you the degree to which it makes you hidden: "for the purpose of hiding, the creature is heavily obscured." Is a heavily obscured character automatically hidden - "both unseen and unheard"? No, of course not. The rules tell us that you can still be heard as normal, and also tell us that it requires a Stealth check in order try and hide. The Hiding rules tell us that an invisible character can always try and hide, not that they are often or generally considered to be hidden by default unless environmental circumstances suggest otherwise.

Put simply, your interpretation is not what is intended by the rules. There are too many places where the rules would have been written differently if your interpretation was intended, and while you're welcome to change any rules at your own table, you should be aware of those changes so that you can convey them to your players and prevent misunderstandings.

Why should a DM tell what the characters can detect? That makes no sense, he should tell them what they perceive.

So hidden is different than invisibility:
- Hidden --> unseen and unheard
- Invisible --> unseen and the unheard part depends on different factors.
Good, an advancement, now... from what page does this thing about auto-detection come? Does it also say the range? Your characters know where are all the beings and things at every moment in the different planes if they are not hidden?

Let me guess, all beings need to perceive or use magic, the DM describes what they see, what they hear, what they smell, what they sense through magic, etc, they don't have auto-detect everything always on like some omnipotent gods. I would say that is common sense for any RPG, now back to invisibility, if someone or something is invisible it can not be seen without the aid of magic or a special sense, that is stated in page 291, it is RAW. I don't know you but I could see easily 5 cockroaches in a table, with my eyes closed I would have a hard time knowing how many and where they are, being blind has implications in the world.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Why should a DM tell what the characters can detect? That makes no sense, he should tell them what they perceive.

Detection and perception are synonyms.

Good, an advancement, now... from what page does this thing about auto-detection come?

It's in the Using Ability Scores section for Dexterity, under Hiding. You have to make a Dexterity (Stealth) check if you want to hide. The Combat rules further clarify that Hide requires an Action.

 

[tomBitonti]

Squares can be rectangles. Rectangles may (or might) be squares.

Lan-"are we about to open a can of can canon?"-efan

Eh, no-one would say the first; normally, one would say, more concisely "squares are rectangles". There is a slight problem also because "but are not always" is lightly implied, as in "Squares be can but are not always rectangles" (which is false).

And, "Rectangles may be squares" forces a little work on the reader, as it relies on selection to pass from "A rectangle may be a square" to "Rectangles may be squares". When the reader is having a heavy load, that slight extra work can become a problem.

Thx!
TomB

 

[Samir]

Detection and perception are synonyms.

It's in the Using Ability Scores section for Dexterity, under Hiding. You have to make a Dexterity (Stealth) check if you want to hide. The Combat rules further clarify that Hide requires an Action.

No, the Combat rules offer the Hide Action as a way to get the benefits under "Unseen Attackers and Targets." Nowhere in the book is it written that masking your location requires the hide action.

In fact, under Unseen Attackers and Targets, the book provides three distinct options for escaping detection:

Combatants often try to escape their foes’ notice by hiding, casting the invisibility spell, or lurking in darkness.

If enemies know where you are standing unless you use the first alternative, the other two do not do what they say they do.

 

[Lanefan]

Eh, no-one would say the first; normally, one would say, more concisely "squares are rectangles". There is a slight problem also because "but are not always" is lightly implied, as in "Squares be can but are not always rectangles" (which is false).

OK, try parsing these:

The room is misty but characters looking south can see a dim shape, possibly a statue.

The room is misty but characters looking south may see a dim shape, possibly a statue.

"Can" implies certainty - you look, you can see it. "May" implies uncertainty - you look, you may or may not see it; which is what I'm after.

And even then, "can" in the first instance above should be replaced by "will" to make it even more clear.

Lan-"is 'can' the new four-letter word in design?"-efan

 

[SkidAce]

Brah, the Barbarian: Hey, can you pass the ale?

Iggy, the Wizard: Sure, I can.

Brah: ....... well?

Iggy: I can pass it.

Brah: ..... well, WILL YOU PASS THE ALE? BRAH THIRSTY!

Iggy: Oh, I thought you were asking if I was able to. Would you like me to pass the ale, Brah?

Brah: BRAH HATE WIZARDS!!!!!

Or Iggy says: Yes , I will pass the ale. (minutes pass) Oh, you mean now...

Brah: BRAH HATE WIZARDS!!!!!

 

[SkidAce]

In fact, under Unseen Attackers and Targets, the book provides three distinct options for escaping detection:


If enemies know where you are standing unless you use the first alternative, the other two do not do what they say they do.

Interesting.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

If enemies know where you are standing unless you use the first alternative, the other two do not do what they say they do.

Being hidden is defined as being both unseen and unheard. If you were already unheard - for whatever reason - then becoming invisible or lurking in darkness would make you hidden.