D&D 5E I allow using INT for initiative bonus, thoughts?

[Corwin]

I do think people sometimes forget the abstraction inherent in initiative as a number. Too much thought and analysis is going into it, for what it really is, IMO.

After all, my 8 dex goliath has beaten our group's rogue more than a few times on initiative. What does that even mean? Because that's the nature of base d20 die roll. So I say pick a modifier (or series of mods) that you think works for you and go for it. Don't let all this muddied discussion of narrative factors and plausible influences confuse you too much.

 

[Eggs Benedict]

I'm comfortable with the degree of abstraction, I think. I'm not so concerned with explaining things in terms of realism, rather I would like to tweak the undervalued and overvalued stats a little. So while it may be true that WIS is a more accurate reflection of 'instinct' and therefore quick thinking, it's INT that suffers from dump stat status (stat status, hmmm). Better DMs than I have written on stat balance in 5th ed. in these forums. DEX has too much punch - INT and STR have too little, I think. In any case, I have gained some perspective from this thread.

 

[BookBarbarian]

I'm comfortable with the degree of abstraction, I think. I'm not so concerned with explaining things in terms of realism, rather I would like to tweak the undervalued and overvalued stats a little. So while it may be true that WIS is a more accurate reflection of 'instinct' and therefore quick thinking, it's INT that suffers from dump stat status (stat status, hmmm). Better DMs than I have written on stat balance in 5th ed. in these forums. DEX has too much punch - INT and STR have too little, I think. In any case, I have gained some perspective from this thread.

I applaud your effort. I too think Int is undervalued, but I also agree with others that initiative is not the place to beef it up. I know plenty of people who are brilliant and slow to act, and a few slow thinkers that have great instincts.

Strength is great if you are using Feats. Polearm Master, Great Weapon Master, and Shield Master all make investing in strength worth it in my opinion.

I am starting to get behind the idea of Higher Int Characters learning additional skills, or being able to learn more languages, or learn them faster. I think it fits' without being overpowered.

 

[Corwin]

I know plenty of people who are brilliant and slow to act, and a few slow thinkers that have great instincts.

As I'm sure there are likewise those who exhibit exceptional motor skills and are also slow to act. Dex as initiative can be said to be arbitrary as well.

 

[cmad1977]

If intelligence was a factor in hand to hand/close quarters combat, why aren't more marines professors or scientists?


I'm sure it works fine.


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[BookBarbarian]

As I'm sure there are likewise those who exhibit exceptional motor skills and are also slow to act. Dex as initiative can be said to be arbitrary as well.

Very true. Dex seems to cover a lot of concepts, and some can be quite contradictory. like a thief that is unrivaled at lockpicking, but is physically crippled. High Dex or low dex? I don't know.

As the default Dex to initiative works 'okay' for me, but I'm not against changing it if people have better ideas. I'm just not sure this idea is worth a houserule at my table /shrug.

A couple of half Feats that allow a character to use a different Stat for initiative would make sense to me. "Quick Mind" for Int, "Sharp Instincts" for Wis or something along those lines.

 

[discosoc]

If intelligence was a factor in hand to hand/close quarters combat, why aren't more marines professors or scientists?


I'm sure it works fine.


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Marines aren't acrobats or dancers, either.

 

[cmad1977]

Marines aren't acrobats or dancers, either.

But are the most lethal fighting force on the planet and trained to react to hostile environments and situations in a rapid fashion...
Physics professors, chemists, engineers... less so.


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[discosoc]

But are the most lethal fighting force on the planet and trained to react to hostile environments and situations in a rapid fashion...
Physics professors, chemists, engineers... less so.


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None of which is inherently tied to natural dexterity or reflex. The combat reflexes of someone like a marine are built up through training until they are conditioned to trigger via muscle memory. It's why you take any random guy, put him through the proper training, and have him come out as part of an effective and lethal fighting force. It doesn't matter if the guy was ever considered dexterous, nor will he ever need to be.

As a counter example, there *are* some military specialization that require specific natural reflex to be part of. Navy fighter pilots have reaction time requirements that can't simply be trained into. Even then the whole concept is heavily tied into the OODA loop, which is largely a function of how quickly your mind process new information.

 

[Corwin]

But are the most lethal fighting force on the planet and trained to react to hostile environments and situations in a rapid fashion...
Physics professors, chemists, engineers... less so.

This tired ol' stereotype of marines being dumb grunts is pretty far from reality, IMX. Just sayin'.