D&D 5E (2014) Musical instrument tool proficiency and performance skill proficiency

[intently]

Your player's bard wants to perform a concert for the king and his court to earn their favor. Do you ask her to roll a skill check for Performance or for her lute as a tool? I'm thinking Performance... but then when she use her lute proficiency?

 

[DEFCON 1]

If we assume that the Tool proficiency the bard has is for lute (since every instrument has its own separate Tool proficiency), then I'd usually use the Tool proficiency for the check. Although there's a pretty good chance it doesn't really matter, because the bard's going to be proficient in Performance and the Tool proficiency anyway, resulting in the same bonus.

Personally, I find the Tool proficiencies a bit of a kludge in the game and have reworked my system to remove most of them (execpt for the ones like alchemy or herbalism, where I have a large crafting system connected to their use.) Of course... the other question you could also ask yourself is whether you'd have the bard make a Charisma (Lute tool) check, or a Dexterity (Lute tool) check... since playing an instrument such as that requires more hand-eye coordination than it does personal magnetism or strength of character.

 

[Staccat0]

I think anyone who has ever spent any time in a Guitar Center knows the difference between someone with technical skill and a performer

I had a dungeon with a door that could only be opened by playing a specific chord. It was relatively tricky to play so it required a proficiency check to play correctly since the performance aspect of it did not matter. Rolling thunder a 10 triggered an encounter.

I could see using INT + Lute to identify where one was built or DEX + Lute to play a string of notes to unlock a door.

I think it mostly exists so people with no CHA don't have to commit resources to participate in goofy "help" actions.

 

[schnee]

Of course... the other question you could also ask yourself is whether you'd have the bard make a Charisma (Lute tool) check, or a Dexterity (Lute tool) check... since playing an instrument such as that requires more hand-eye coordination than it does personal magnetism or strength of character.

Is the Lute player trying to distract the Duke's advisor with a riveting street performance so the Rogue can pickpocket the key to the Royal residence, or is the Lute auditioning for the job of tutoring the Duke's daughter so he is just let right in?

 

[discosoc]

If we assume that the Tool proficiency the bard has is for lute (since every instrument has its own separate Tool proficiency), then I'd usually use the Tool proficiency for the check. Although there's a pretty good chance it doesn't really matter, because the bard's going to be proficient in Performance and the Tool proficiency anyway, resulting in the same bonus.

I don't believe tool proficiencies generally benefit from ability score bonuses, whereas a skill does.

 

[intently]

Well, almost all tools seem to be proxies for abilities that could instead be skills. For example, Thieves' Tools could have been a skill called "Disarm Traps" or something similar; same for Disguise Kit, Poisoners Kit, and Forgery Kit. Same with many crafting tools and gaming "tools".

Basically, only instrument "tools" seem useless.

 

[Ganymede81]

If you're trying to entertain and captivate an audience, use a performance check.

If you are trying to survive that deathtrap in The Goonies where you have to play a musical piece on a skeletal organ in order to prevent the floor from caving in, use a tool (organ) check.

 

[Satyrn]

. . . use a tool (organ) check.

 

[Mephista]

I run Performance skill as Dancing and Singing. Actually carrying a tune with, say, a magical harp requires the right tool proficency. Singing along while playing the harp requires both. Dancing while playing the violin requires both. #lindseysterling

 

[hastur_nz]

I think tool proficiency is a pre-requisite i.e. a requirement to be able to even have a chance in success. For example, you can't try and disarm a trap with thieves tools, unless you are proficient in thieves tools, however you disarm using a Dex (investigation) check. To play a lute, you need proficiency in the lute (or at least proficiency in stringed instruments, if you are more generous), then your actual playing uses Cha (performance). The DMG magical instruments support this, for example last night my group got magical pan pipes, which required proficiency in wind instruments to use (and it turned out one PC had actually taken proficiency in pan pipes).

Think of it like this: if you've never played guitar in your life, or anything similar, do you think your 'perform' skill is going to help you play the D&D equivalent of Stairway to Heaven?