D&D 5E Why FR Is "Hated"

[Demetrios1453]

The game rapidly became more complex and an explosion of creativity and experimentation went on before 1st Edition ever happened. I have played 1st, 2nd, 3rd (Pathfinder), and 5th edition. I have also played plenty of other systems. I don't find the latest editions particularly complex. In fact, 5th is rather simple and doesn't do certain things earlier editions did quite well and vice versa. Let's not pretend that "Gaming IQ" has magically improved in the last couple of decades. What has happened is a shift in the expectations of what table-top rp gaming is about. The designers now aren't any smarter than the early designers.

I would actually be surprised if they weren't! Back in 1e, no human could naturally have a greater than 18 INT; now they can naturally have up to a 20 INT, should they so choose to place the necessary stat increases in that stat. I assume that INT is an important, if not a primary, stat for game developers!

 

[Hussar]

It makes sense if one doesn't like all campaign settings that are polytheistic.

Heh. Anyone who doesn't like polytheistic settings is going to have a problem playing D&D then. I mean, in over 40 years of D&D publications, how many settings are mono-theistic? I can think of one that came out in 3e by Green Ronin (I forget the name of the setting), but, that's about it. Hundreds of settings for D&D over the years (if we include 3pp in there) and one that isn't polytheistic?

Never minding that I cannot think of a single supplement related to any D&D religions or clerics that wasn't polytheistic.

The presumption of polytheism is pretty much baked right into D&D from day one.

 

[MackMcMacky]

Heh. Anyone who doesn't like polytheistic settings is going to have a problem playing D&D then. I mean, in over 40 years of D&D publications, how many settings are mono-theistic? I can think of one that came out in 3e by Green Ronin (I forget the name of the setting), but, that's about it. Hundreds of settings for D&D over the years (if we include 3pp in there) and one that isn't polytheistic?

Never minding that I cannot think of a single supplement related to any D&D religions or clerics that wasn't polytheistic.

The presumption of polytheism is pretty much baked right into D&D from day one.

Yeah, you would have to go it alone quite a bit. One option: Just Wizards and Bards, rework the spell lists, and make quite a few of the wizards be, occupationally speaking, clergy.

 

[reelo]

Only the most wonderful dish in the history of Food!

The French Fry.


Mmmm, deliciousness.

Sorry for the off-topic, but the French didn't invent the "french" fry. That would be the Belgians.

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[KahlessNestor]

The sound of a shark jumping. I never thought I would hear it myself.

I… I think I need a moment…



I’m aware of the bystander effect, but in the full context of my and [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION] ‘s discussion we have a high level cleric, who has to have adventured because Maxperson believes that adventuring or similar activities is the only way to gain level. This High level cleric was not a hero, he was a tomb robber, but gathered wealth and power and became the head of a church. And then when the city is under threat and the people whose faith powers himself and his deity are in trouble will simply do nothing, because he is not a hero.

Despite the fact that even if his deity and himself are relatively selfish, they are better served by helping the community. Then when the church needs followers they can point and say “Who saved you from the Pirates? Who restored the crops blighted by the necromancer? Who kept you safe from the Cult of Orcus?” and so on, and they will say that you did wonderful church of the god we all follow now instead of “Those dusty travelers who burnt down the inn and said they worshipped the god of monkey butts…” Which, I’m 80% certain some group in the realms has had a guy who claimed to worship that god at some point in the last 70 years. Just a hunch.

They have a lot to lose if they don’t and everything to gain by continuing to act like adventurers, minus the burning of bars and other shenanigans, so why wouldn’t they? They don’t even have legitimate concerns of dying from a thug with a knife like most people do, they can be just as confident fighting a group of bandits as your level 13 party is fighting bandits.







I feel like I need to get in on this 9 alignment thing, but I've only got five...

There could be any number of reasons we could use to explain why such a priest can't or won't help.

Download and read Matt Colville's novel Priest. Heden, the main character, you find out is a pretty powerful adventurer and priest with a reputation. He has spent the last 5-10 years holed up in a tavern he bought and never opens because he's completely PTSDed out.

Or maybe the priest is inundated with helping the refugees and injured from the crisis. He isn't sitting on his hands, but he has responsibilities he can't just walk away from.

These are just two examples I could think of off the top of my head. There are doubtless countless others.

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[prosfilaes]

Never minding that I cannot think of a single supplement related to any D&D religions or clerics that wasn't polytheistic.

3rd Edition Deities and Demigods had a monotheistic religion and a dualistic religion back in the Other Religions section. Not that ten pages in one book really change your argument.

 

[Shasarak]

Sorry for the off-topic, but the French didn't invent the "french" fry. That would be the Belgians.

Mmmm, Belgian Fries.

 

[cbwjm]

I think you mean freedom fries!

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[Chaosmancer]

There could be any number of reasons we could use to explain why such a priest can't or won't help.

Download and read Matt Colville's novel Priest. Heden, the main character, you find out is a pretty powerful adventurer and priest with a reputation. He has spent the last 5-10 years holed up in a tavern he bought and never opens because he's completely PTSDed out.

Or maybe the priest is inundated with helping the refugees and injured from the crisis. He isn't sitting on his hands, but he has responsibilities he can't just walk away from.

These are just two examples I could think of off the top of my head. There are doubtless countless others.

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Priest is pretty great, but I point you to book 2 Thief Both Heden and Aimsley end up saving the town, neither one is truly up for it. But, the wizards and the dwarf don't really get involved, but we also only see one big "attack" on the town and that takes place off screen, everything else is pretty small scale back alley fights in the night. Or that epic duel.

Now, I grant you "main character syndrome" is at work here and both your explanations are good ones. Collville is one of the only people I'm aware of to look into the mental breakdowns of adventurers and of course the healers could be busy during the attack. I like those possibilities much more than I like the "people aren't heroic" or "they aren't around" answers I have been getting.

 

[Aldarc]

Heh. Anyone who doesn't like polytheistic settings is going to have a problem playing D&D then. I mean, in over 40 years of D&D publications, how many settings are mono-theistic? I can think of one that came out in 3e by Green Ronin (I forget the name of the setting), but, that's about it. Hundreds of settings for D&D over the years (if we include 3pp in there) and one that isn't polytheistic?

Never minding that I cannot think of a single supplement related to any D&D religions or clerics that wasn't polytheistic.

The presumption of polytheism is pretty much baked right into D&D from day one.

Eberron at least does have non-polytheistic faiths and cults (e.g. Blood of Vol, Silver Flame, Path of Light, etc.), though the primary faith is the polytheistic Sovereign Host (and Dark Six).