D&D 5E Building a better Paladin

[Tony Vargas]

It's the 4e Nerf the Ranger/Twin Strike thing all over again. It was silly then, and it's silly now.

To be fair, there was a whole lotta errata coming out for 4e, so the expectation of an official 'fix' wasn't nearly so unfounded as it would be now.
(In the end, though, didn't they beef up Precise Shot instead of nerfing Twin Strike?)

Also to be fair, multiple attacks have always been problematic because of the way they interact with damage bonuses and on-hit extra damage.

 

[Gladius Legis]

Also to be fair, multiple attacks have always been problematic because of the way they interact with damage bonuses and on-hit extra damage.

Sure, but in that case, since so many classes wound up getting multiple attacks in 4e in some form or fashion, even at-will, why then single out the Ranger and put it behind the damage curve all of a sudden? Especially when it was explicitly a Striker class and was thus justified in doing that much damage?

Not to re-litigate the most foolish ongoing whine party that took place during 4e's time, but just like with Divine Smite, it shows the tendency of such people to home in on one element and demand it get nerfed, even though the math shows it's hardly problematic compared to what other classes have.

 

[Ganymede81]

Completely delete the Divine Smite class feature, and rename Improved Divine Smite to be just Divine Smite.

Done and done.

 

[CTurbo]

I think to make up for the Pally's lack of ranged attacks, they should be able to cast Chain Lightning at will starting at level 1

 

[Gladius Legis]

Here we go:
- Give them 3 attacks at Lv. 11. Keep Improved Divine Smite at that level, too.
- Make them full casters. Uncap Divine Smite so they can use their full allotment of 6th and above slots they get.
- Put all the top Evocation spells on their list like Scorching Ray, Fireball, Chain Lightning, etc.
- Yes, give them Wish on their list when they hit 9th-level spells. Oh, and Foresight in case they just want advantage on everything all day.

Yeah. That should do it.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Sure, but in that case, since so many classes wound up getting multiple attacks in 4e in some form or fashion, even at-will, why then single out the Ranger

Lots of classes got AEs or multi-target attacks, multiple attacks you could focus on one target were more unusual. Twin Strike was the obvious poster boy for that.

So, yeah, add primary stat modifier damage to twin strike, what could it hurt?

- Make them full casters. Uncap Divine Smite so they can use their full allotment of 6th and above slots they get.
- Put all the top Evocation spells on their list like Scorching Ray, Fireball, Chain Lightning, etc.
- Yes, give them Wish on their list when they hit 9th-level spells. Oh, and Foresight in case they just want advantage on everything all day.

OK, now that's unfair. With Divine Smite useable with any slot level, and good high level spells added to their list, that's a lot of pressure on slots, obviously you've got to give them more slots/day.

 

[Thurmas]

I don't particualarly think Paladin ir broken, but I would support the following changes:

Remove Divine Smite.
Keep Improved Divine Smite adding 1d8 damage to attacks at level 11, rename it Divine Smite.
Change the Paladin's Smite spells so that the damage is equal to the current Divine Smite damage, and scales appropriately per spell slot used to cast the spell.
Add some more Smite Spells that do cool stuff.
Change the casting time of all the Smite Spells from Bonus Action to Reaction, triggering so that can be cast after you hit a creature with an attack.
Remove concentration from the Smite Spells.

 

[Lost Soul]

Three changes I have made to paladins in my group
1) Only smite once per round: Any other class can only cast a spell once per round unless using a bonus action in limited circumstances to cast a spell. Since paladins do not get cantrips that can be converted into a smite they can only smite (cast one spell) per round.

2) Smites have to be called out and rolled for the attack just like any other spell attack. Choosing to lay down a smite after you crit is pure cheese. Paladins should lead by example. If a caster has to roll to hit or lose a spell paladins should have to follow the same rule. No more care bear casting rules for paladins

3)Avenger "MOAR damage!" spells such as hunters mark and hellish rebuke should be removed from their casting list. I mean seriously, 1D4 extra damage from divine favor was too weak that we have to pump it to 1D6 & poach a ranger signature spell? Paladins those paragons of virtue are drawing on the powers of hell for retribution on any foul creature soiling their nice & shinny armor?

 

[rustythorn]

i would "fix" the paladin by incorporation of more role-playing.

1] the paladin must justify the use of its smites [e.g. the paladin knows that the creature it is smiting has done some evil]

2] higher level smites become more limited [e.g. you can only use a 2nd lv spell against certain types of creatures or certain types of evil acts [i.e. you can only use a 3rd lv spell smite against a murder or this list: demon, devil, elemental, ect...]]

failure to follow these tenets results in a loss of smite until atonement

 

[rustythorn]

double post, enworld is very lagy and i keep getting 502 bad gateway error