D&D 5E Mearls on other settings

[Zardnaar]

What you think should be excluded. There is no agreement on that. I do agree a few exceptions can be made, but banning half the players handbook is a nonstarter.

Its a setting, by design they are not the PHB and there are plenty of generic worlds out there.

Using your logic I suppose you would support Nerath missing Dragonborn, Warlocks, and Tieflings if they redid it?

Not every setting has ot be a sandbox, it would be very boring if they were.

As to what should be excluded pretty much everything that was not in the original except for stuff that logically fits the setting. Barbarians for example can go in.

Add new things like Athasian subraces or domains, and new races perhaps Halfgiant and the other races that are not large get a free feat or ASI.

Remove stuff like Decanters of endless water.

 

[Obryn]

A few classes and races get around what Darksun is supposed to be about though hence why they should be excluded.

I don't think you have a very good handle on what Dark Sun is supposed to be about, based on your posts, here. You are mistaking the setting's themes with the provided content in the 2e setting and the specific rules implementations of AD&D. These are not the same things, at all.

For example, upthread I posted what I think is a pretty good Dark Sun implementation of Warforged. It fits the themes of the setting. It was not, of course, part of its content.

 

[Remathilis]

So I took a few moments to *ahem* acquire Dragon 319 (official Dark Sun update for 3.5 by Paizo) and looked at the options for classes and races. The races were no surprise; Athasian variants of humans, elves, dwarves, elan, maenads, xeph... Wait! Those are psionic handbook races! They never existed in Dark Sun! They have no right to be there, like dragonborn or tieflings.

Then I moved on to classes and they had classes for fighters, rogues, barbarians, and... Hold the phone, monks? And paladins? And sorcerers and spellcasting bards? And all four psionic classes? Why, they gave options for the whole 3.5 PHB and XPH, save giths and half-orcs!

Betrayal! Who do WotC and Paizo think they are?!

Though by my count, that makes spellcasting bards, monks, and sorcerers legit in two editions now.

But I'm sure WotC will come to thier senses and ban Everything that wasn't in the original box set...

 

[Zardnaar]

So I took a few moments to *ahem* acquire Dragon 319 (official Dark Sun update for 3.5 by Paizo) and looked at the options for classes and races. The races were no surprise; Athasian variants of humans, elves, dwarves, elan, maenads, xeph... Wait! Those are psionic handbook races! They never existed in Dark Sun! They have no right to be there, like dragonborn or tieflings.

Then I moved on to classes and they had classes for fighters, rogues, barbarians, and... Hold the phone, monks? And paladins? And sorcerers and spellcasting bards? And all four psionic classes? Why, they gave options for the whole 3.5 PHB and XPH, save giths and half-orcs!

Betrayal! Who do WotC and Paizo think they are?!

Though by my count, that makes spellcasting bards, monks, and sorcerers legit in two editions now.

But I'm sure WotC will come to thier senses and ban Everything that wasn't in the original box set...

At the time the 3.5 conversions were laughed at and it was referred to as Dimsun. And that was by Athas.or who were doing conversions of 2E material and those conversions are still there.

They also dropped the ball on the art, Hamanu is an infamously bad example in the Paizo conversions. They were actually worse than the 4E conversions.

I'm also not opposed to some things making it into DS, Xephs for example might be an idea.

Athas.org also did a fairly reasonable conversion to 3E of DS stuff, the main mistake they made was converting stuff over to literally from 2E. For Example AC 5 became AC 15 and their monsters were a bit weak for their CR.

I actually tired playing the conversion that Paizo did and it was terrible.

 

[Enkhidu]

Move along, nothing to see here.

 

[Greg K]

At the time the 3.5 conversions were laughed at and it was referred to as Dimsun. And that was by Athas.or who were doing conversions of 2E material and those conversions are still there.

They also dropped the ball on the art, Hamanu is an infamously bad example in the Paizo conversions. They were actually worse than the 4E conversions.

Yeah, it was bad. It was worse than 2e Revised for TSR by Slavicsek and the further deterioration under his watch which I didn't think was possible. Not that the 4e version was any better, in my opinion.

 

[Zardnaar]

Just becuase it did not exist in 2E doesn't mean I would automatically exclude it. A criteria to exclude a race on Darksu would be if it contradicted the major themes of Darksun, those being.

Survival
Environment
Slavery
Brutality
Magic Ruins the world
Everything is psionic.
Lack of metal

Those are probably the main ones .

Races I would exclude from Athas as player options (some might be there as NPCs or to be discovered eg Dray)

Any of the extinct ones (Gnomes, Orcs , Kobolds etc).
Dragonborn (Athas does not have the traditional D&D Dragons, Dragonas are very rare, Dragonmen should not be there)
Anything living construct (as PC option). Warforged for example don't need to sleep, breathe, eat, drink (ignores environmental/survival aspect of the setting)
Extraplanar creatures (Tiefling, Aasimar) Athas is cut off from traditional D&D cosmology. Elemental creatures could be an exception.
Anything metalic or heavily water based.
Anything with spell like abilities as a PC race.
Most anthromorphic furries (Minotaurs, Tabaxi etc). Darksun lacks a lot of mammal based life forms.
Plant races

Classes
Arcane classes that are not wizards maybe Sorcerers depending on edition (3E sorcerer while boring had no bloodlines). They rewrote the 2E bard for a reason magic is hard.
Any class that gets around the themes of Darksun- Monks for example (unarmed combat is to good on a depleted world).
Time travel based classes (chronomancers)


These are the rough guidelines I would use. Things I would be more inclined to let into the setting.

Non magical classes that did not exist in 2E (3.5 Scout, any Barbarians etc).
Psionic races (psionics is easy on DS).
PC races of existing DS "monsters". Yuan Ti purebloods for example psionic and yuan ti
Reasonably non magical races that have not been wiped out (Goliaths)
Reptiles races (not lizard men they are extinct to the world at large).
Races derived from the elements (Genasi)

 

[Remathilis]

Just becuase it did not exist in 2E doesn't mean I would automatically exclude it. A criteria to exclude a race on Darksu would be if it contradicted the major themes of Darksun, those being.

Survival
Environment
Slavery
Brutality
Magic Ruins the world
Everything is psionic.
Lack of metal

Those are probably the main ones .

Races I would exclude from Athas as player options (some might be there as NPCs or to be discovered eg Dray)

Any of the extinct ones (Gnomes, Orcs , Kobolds etc).
Dragonborn (Athas does not have the traditional D&D Dragons, Dragonas are very rare, Dragonmen should not be there)
Anything living construct (as PC option). Warforged for example don't need to sleep, breathe, eat, drink (ignores environmental/survival aspect of the setting)
Extraplanar creatures (Tiefling, Aasimar) Athas is cut off from traditional D&D cosmology. Elemental creatures could be an exception.
Anything metalic or heavily water based.
Anything with spell like abilities as a PC race.
Most anthromorphic furries (Minotaurs, Tabaxi etc). Darksun lacks a lot of mammal based life forms.
Plant races

Classes
Arcane classes that are not wizards maybe Sorcerers depending on edition (3E sorcerer while boring had no bloodlines). They rewrote the 2E bard for a reason magic is hard.
Any class that gets around the themes of Darksun- Monks for example (unarmed combat is to good on a depleted world).
Time travel based classes (chronomancers)


These are the rough guidelines I would use. Things I would be more inclined to let into the setting.

Non magical classes that did not exist in 2E (3.5 Scout, any Barbarians etc).
Psionic races (psionics is easy on DS).
PC races of existing DS "monsters". Yuan Ti purebloods for example psionic and yuan ti
Reasonably non magical races that have not been wiped out (Goliaths)
Reptiles races (not lizard men they are extinct to the world at large).
Races derived from the elements (Genasi)

Your list just reinforces my belief D&D is the wrong game for Dark Sun. A spin-off variant game, with it's own player rules and it's own monster book. Trying to cram it all into a 159 page book with a hacked up quarter of the core rules stapled to it is a disservice. It shares nothing in common with the main D&D game but the d20 mechanics; why not let it be its own thing?

 

[Staffan]

I believe that I am qualified to state that Spelljammer is essentially DnD in Space.

To be precise, it is "AD&D® Adventures In Space". At least that's what the box says.

 

[Zardnaar]

Your list just reinforces my belief D&D is the wrong game for Dark Sun. A spin-off variant game, with it's own player rules and it's own monster book. Trying to cram it all into a 159 page book with a hacked up quarter of the core rules stapled to it is a disservice. It shares nothing in common with the main D&D game but the d20 mechanics; why not let it be its own thing?

Because they won't do a non D&D game of Darksun.

Darksun the 1st campaign to get Halflings right. Vote Xig'Xug for president.