D&D 5E A mechanical solution to the problem with rests

[Sadras]

This is total off the top of my head, but I think it would be easier to handle this in the XP system. After a long rest, the first encounter is at 50% xp and the second encounter at 75% xp. The fourth encounter after a short rest would be at 125% and +25% per encounter after that. So the party knows it is penalized by frequent long rests. But pushing their luck after a short rest could benefit them. There might be an exception for boss fights after a long rest at the DM's discretion.

After all, XP awards should be adjusted by the actual difficulty of the encounter. While usually that is just a CR kind of thing, there's no reason why a timing element could not be included.

The above is pacing mechanism and doesn't necessarily solve the attrition problem. Players can still go-slow. Two XP proposals were already addressed in the parent thread, one like yours as a pacing mechanism, the other utilising XP earned (separate pool) during the adventuring day to 'buy' (gain) rests.

 

[Krachek]

Ironman athlete living style finally reach DnD!
Go to work lazy people, stop abusing resting!

Nice approach for those who want real sharp competitive gaming.
Personally I will pass.

 

[clearstream]

Ironman athlete living style finally reach DnD!
Go to work lazy people, stop abusing resting!

Nice approach for those who want real sharp competitive gaming.
Personally I will pass.

Thank you Although I don't see it about competition as creating engaging challenges that players will remember for years to come.

 

[Krachek]

Thank you Although I don't see it about competition as creating engaging challenges that players will remember for years to come.

Sharping up rules for Rest or XP budget wont help build engaging challenge in my sense.
Engaging challenge are easier to build by using role play, lore and long lasting enemy.

 

[clearstream]

Sharping up rules for Rest or XP budget wont help build engaging challenge in my sense.
Engaging challenge are easier to build by using role play, lore and long lasting enemy.

Those things are important, but so too are the game mechanics. As an extreme example, say we remove any mechanical consequence for running out of HP? If we do, our encounters will lose a great deal of tension. So too with casting limits, class feature usage limits and so forth. The game mechanics offer constraints that amplify tension and validate outcomes.

It is possible to accomplish tension through implied constraints for instance in a "diceless" RPG. That is harder to pull off well. Game mechanics offer a huge helping hand in achieving tension.

 

[Krachek]

Those things are important, but so too are the game mechanics. As an extreme example, say we remove any mechanical consequence for running out of HP? If we do, our encounters will lose a great deal of tension. So too with casting limits, class feature usage limits and so forth. The game mechanics offer constraints that amplify tension and validate outcomes.

It is possible to accomplish tension through implied constraints for instance in a "diceless" RPG. That is harder to pull off well. Game mechanics offer a huge helping hand in achieving tension.

There is no need to use extreme example, I understand your point.
But the more you will sharpen and rely on game mechanic to build tension, the more players will only see that.
DnD is a role play game first, strategy and game mechanics should come second.
There is some people who would like a Strategy game first, with some role play once a while, but it is not the core game.
5ed perfect audience, is the trending Critical Role party. Do you think they care about resting balance?

 

[clearstream]

There is no need to use extreme example, I understand your point.
But the more you will sharpen and rely on game mechanic to build tension, the more players will only see that.
DnD is a role play game first, strategy and game mechanics should come second.
There is some people who would like a Strategy game first, with some role play once a while, but it is not the core game.

For me it is a blend. The mechanics enhance and validate the roleplay. The fact that a PC can cast Fireball but cannot guarantee that the evil priestess will fail her saving throw - that mechanic - amplifies tension. Consequences - holding players to account via the mechanics - make the decisions of the players matter. I believe that when we ignore the mechanics and obviate consequences, we weaken our story. However, I accept that this is a balance. We have to make good choices about which mechanics we invest time in and obviously we'll have different ideas about that.

5ed perfect audience, is the trending Critical Role party. Do you think they care about resting balance?

Critical Role is created for viewing entertainment. They need to ignore things like rest for the sake of their viewing audience. I don't find it representative of the art of roleplay for the players at the table.

 

[ro]

I kind of liked the system proposed by the OP, but I think it does not take into consideration the multipliers for number of enemies.

You don't actually gain 300 xp per character in an adventure day at 1st level. Your adventure day xp budget will normally not be enough to level up the group.

For example, let's say we have a group of 4 1st level players. Their adventure day budget is 1200 xp.

1 encounter with 4 goblins is worth 200 xp but, because of the number of enemies, the encounter is actually worth twice that (400).

So, after 3 enconters like that, you would already have filled the adventure day budget, but each member of the group only gained 150 xp.

I had this thought, too. Did anybody actually respond to this idea?

 

[ro]

Long Rest Rule:
The rules for long rests specify that you can only gain the benefits of a long rest once per 24 hours. If you create an adventure that has more happen in 24 hours, nobody can squish out an extra long rest.

New Short Rest Rule:
Why not simply add a similar rule for short rests? A player can only gain the benefits of a short rest twice per 24 hours. (Or if the DM prefers, three times for a slightly easier adventure or an 8-encounter day.)

This prevents short rest abuse, at least.

No Short Rests:
Or get rid of short rests entirely and change any ability that is (X times per short rest) to (3X or 4X times per long rest).

Sleep:
Furthermore, sleep should be better tracked.
- Trance: Elves can "Trance" for 4 hours to gain the same rest a human would in 8 hours.
- 8-hour long rest: A long rest must be at least 8 hours, so elves get four extra hours to twiddle their thumbs.
- Humans, et al, need to sleep: If a human is standing watch for 2 of 8 hours, they only get 6 hours of sleep: they are not fully rested. This is the equivalent of an elf trancing for only 3 hours.
- (Most) Long rests take >8 hours: To obtain the benefit of a long rest, a human should have to sleep for 8 full hours, in addition to standing watch if necessary. Long rests for non-elves would frequently take longer than 8 hours.
- Less Sleep = Exhaustion: For every two hours you miss of sleep (or one hour of trance), you gain 1/3 level of exhaustion. You only recover levels of exhaustion after full-sleep long rests.

 

[Tony Vargas]

There is no need to use extreme example, I understand your point. DnD is a role play game first, strategy and game mechanics should come second. But the more you will sharpen and rely on game mechanic to build tension, the more players will only see that.

It's synergistic. Systems can undercut story-based tension, or re-enforce it.

Since D&D tends to depend upon attrition to provide challenge, it re-enforces the tension of time-pressure scenarios with multiple combats (and any other resource-depleting challenges) that must be overcome within a 24-hour period (or 1 wk period using the 'gritty' module). It can tend to undercut anything else.

Of course, you can abandon that synergy entirely and just RP Freestyle.

5ed perfect audience, is the trending Critical Role party. Do you think they care about resting balance?

Caring about (being aware of) and being impacted by are two very different things. And 5e's intended audience is meant to be inclusive of all fans of all past editions of D&D.