D&D 5E Spell -> Counterspell -> Counterspell (from same character that casts 1st spell) - possible?

[Yunru]

The text quoted above is in the section about bonus actions, but it applies to all spell casting.

No it doesn't, otherwise it wouldn't be in the section about bonus actions.

 

[Yunru]

Possibly, but if that was the intent it is confusing enough that Chris Perkins believed it applied to spellcasting in general (again per his tweet in post #39).

Not at all, it just means he answered from memory, as they often do.

 

[dave2008]

No it doesn't, otherwise it wouldn't be in the section about bonus actions.

That is a valid interpretation, but not the only one. Personally I don't care, like any good DM my group does what we think works best for us

 

[dave2008]

Not at all, it just means he answered from memory, as they often do.

Possibly, no way of knowing for sure unless some asks and he chooses to answer.

 

[Yunru]

That is a valid interpretation, but not the only one. Personally I don't care, like any good DM my group does what we think works best for us

Actually it is. To view it otherwise is akin to adding a(n additional) damage roll to every attack because "while it's under damage it applies to all attacks".

If something is in a subsection, or refers to a specific subsection, then it is only about that.


Back to the topic on hand, I houserule that counterspell can only be used on spells with a casting time longer than itself.

 

[dave2008]

Actually it is. To view it otherwise is akin to adding a(n additional) damage roll to every attack because "while it's under damage it applies to all attacks".

If something is in a subsection, or refers to a specific subsection, then it is only about that.

I'm not following your analogy. I agree that your subsection argument is a good idea, but it is not a requirement, nor does it prevent other views. I still think my explanation is still a valid one, but no need to worry about that - you don't get a prize for convincing me Like I said previously, that is not how we play the game anyway.

Back to the topic on hand, I houserule that counterspell can only be used on spells with a casting time longer than itself.

That is a logical way to look at it.

 

[KahlessNestor]

Possibly, but if that was the intent it is confusing enough that Chris Perkins believed it applied to spellcasting in general (again per his tweet in post #39).

You do realize that what Perkins says in Sage Advice means didley squat, right? Perkins isn't the rules guy. Jeremy Crawford is. I have watched Perkins DM, and while he's a great DM, his rules knowledge is often lacking.

Also, Sage Advice isn't even legal in AL, just recommended. RAW is what's legal, and RAW is reactions and bonus actions are different things and reaction spells can be used on your turn even if you have already cast. You can houserule it if you like, but don't misrepresent it.

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[dave2008]

You do realize that what Perkins says in Sage Advice means didley squat, right? Perkins isn't the rules guy. Jeremy Crawford is. I have watched Perkins DM, and while he's a great DM, his rules knowledge is often lacking.

Also, Sage Advice isn't even legal in AL, just recommended. RAW is what's legal, and RAW is reactions and bonus actions are different things and reaction spells can be used on your turn even if you have already cast. You can houserule it if you like, but don't misrepresent it.

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Could be, but it was posted to the official Sage Advice twitter account (I think), see post #39.

FYI, I am not trying to misrepresent the rules. I just think the RAW is unclear and I am stating that I can understand why people have different opinions. I really don't care.

I don't play AL, I don't use official campaigns, and I don't really care about RAW. I play my own game with people I have played with for 30 yrs and with my children and their friends. I don't care what the official answer is.

I have spent way to much time on this issue for someone who just doesn't care about it. My apologies!

 

[Caliban]

Could be, but it was posted to the official Sage Advice twitter account (I think), see post #39.

Nope, that wasn't the official twitter account, that was Chris Perkins personal twitter account. It was just collated on a site that collects twitter responses from the developers. The site itself isn't run by WOTC.

FYI, I am not trying to misrepresent the rules. I just think the RAW is unclear and I am stating that I can understand why people have different opinions. I really don't care.

I don't see how the RAW is unclear. There is a rule that limits you to cantrips when you cast a bonus action spell. Counterspell isn't a bonus action spell. Therefore, that rule doesn't apply. Very clear.

Chris Perkins answer was "Rules say no." Since the rules don't say any such thing, his response doesn't apply. He was answering from memory and got it wrong. It happens. He isn't the rules guy.

If you read the full response on the site you linked, it goes on to say the OFFICIAL ANSWER is in the sage advice compendium, and provides a link to it. The specific response in the Sage Advice Compendium contradicts Chris Perkins' answer:

http://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/SA-Compendium.pdf

Can you also cast a reaction spell on your turn? You sure can!

Here’s a common way for it to happen:

Cornelius the wizard is casting fireball on his turn, and his foe casts counterspell on him.
Cornelius has counterspell prepared, so he uses his reaction to cast it and break his foe’s counterspell before it can stop fireball.

 

[dave2008]

Nope, that wasn't the official twitter account, that was Chris Perkins personal twitter account. It was just collated on a site that collects twitter responses from the developers. The site itself isn't run by WOTC.

Good to know - thank you for the clarification.

I don't see how the RAW is unclear. There is a rule that limits you to cantrips when you cast a bonus action spell. Counterspell isn't a bonus action spell. Therefore, that rule doesn't apply. Very clear.

The text says you can't cast another spell (it doesn't mention casting time - action, bonus action, or reaction) on your turn, except a cantrip. Very clear

If you read the full response on the site you linked, it goes on to say the OFFICIAL ANSWER is in the sage advice compendium, and provides a link to it. The specific response in the Sage Advice Compendium contradicts Chris Perkins' answer:

If you read this whole thread you will see that I already agreed that the official response is that you can cast counterspell on your turn after casting another spell. I am not arguing what the official response / clarification is. I am just commenting that to me, and others, the RAW isn't "very" clear. Personally it doesn't bother me what the official clarification is, the design intent is, or the RAW is. My group plays the way we want to play and are all good.

Finally, as when I was reading the thread I was 100% behind you and your cohort; however, when I went back and actually read the PHB, it gave me some doubts. To me, if it made me doubt, then it wasn't clear. I agree that the rule appears to be and is officially as you suggest, but I don't think I will every agree it is very clear.