D&D 5E D&D Promises to Make the Game More Queer

[Morrus]

D&D Promises to Make the Game More Queer

Why would I ask for ten? Three is sufficient.

Because you said the three he gave you weren’t enough? This is one of the oddest conversations I’ve had in a while!

Again, which one of those three is not monotheistic? Because they all are.

 

[Wepwawet]

OK. If it isn't propaganda, please provide one case of homosexuality in medieval Europe that merely blended into the background and did not cause political or familial drama?

What does medieval Europe has to do with it?
It's a fantasy game in fantasy worlds. There's only a slightly aesthetic resemblance with historical Europe.

The game is called Dungeons & Dragons, not "Plague & Inquisition"

 

[Hussar]

Which brings us back to square 0 of defaulting to popular (though often ahistoric) view of traditional medieval norms like we do with everything else that isn't stated directly.

Umm, that traditional view is grounded in views common in the 70's and 80's. Views change. I

To put it in perspective, at the same time Gygax and co were publishing OD&D, in Canada, it was impossible to charge a husband with raping his wife. Now, views of that sort of thing have changed pretty dramatically since then.

Trying to play the card of, "Well, the game was like this when it was written, so, why change things" doesn't really fly very well. LOTS of things were acceptable in 1974 that certainly aren't now. Adding in gay elements to the game is just the right thing to do.

 

[tombowings]

Umm, that traditional view is grounded in views common in the 70's and 80's. Views change. I

To put it in perspective, at the same time Gygax and co were publishing OD&D, in Canada, it was impossible to charge a husband with raping his wife. Now, views of that sort of thing have changed pretty dramatically since then.

Trying to play the card of, "Well, the game was like this when it was written, so, why change things" doesn't really fly very well. LOTS of things were acceptable in 1974 that certainly aren't now. Adding in gay elements to the game is just the right thing to do.

Putting propaganda in children's game is the right thing to do? OK. That makes sense.

Now, Just so I don't have to rehash this again *sigh*...

Propaganda: information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view.

According to the article presented in the OP, Crawford said “I wasn’t about to have this book go out and not acknowledge that people like me exist." There are two parts of the quote:

1. "I wasn’t about to have this book go out and not acknowledge..."
2. "...people like me exist."

There is nothing wrong with part 2. It's not propagandist at all. It's factual. The LGBT community exists. Personally, I see no reason why we all shouldn't embrace that community. My problem is with part 1, which shows an intent to present a certain world view.

Now, as I have stated before, the inclusion of "people like [him]" (which is a terrible way to phrase his motivation), could be handled well and make sense within the context of the source material and the adventure, but the way Crawford states his intentions is unsettling. They point at a political or at least an ideological motivation, which makes the inclusion of the LGBT a propagandist advance.

Now, part of professional career is to promote democratic values and tolerance in the developing world - so don't go saying I'm some kind of bigot, because I'm not. All I'm saying is that there is a place for political discussions, but placing ideological propaganda in a children's game is not the right way to go about it. Whether or not I agree with the message of this particular piece of propaganda is irreverent. D&D is not the right coliseum for the battle of ideas to take place, in my opinion, and I will continue to advocate that very simple, reasonable position.

 

[Mercule]

anyone whose funeral or wedding is held at a church ...

Eh.... This isn't a given. I'm a church elder (lay leader who works with the pastor) and one of the recurring concerns is how to handle the folks who aren't church-goers (whether completely unchurched or just haven't attended in years) who drove by our church and like the architecture for their wedding (it's not huge, but has really cool front doors and cathedral ceilings). The other is how to handle deceased who were either openly atheistic or hadn't attended any church for decades (throwing any level of faith into doubt). Since both weddings and funerals are religious ceremonies, our answer is generally that only confirmed members of our congregation can get married there and that the pastor will preside over a funeral at the funeral home, but not at the church for non-members. Other churches/denominations are less restrictive, whether because of more Unitarian doctrine or seeing both events as an opportunity to proselytize to unchurched visitors. Funerals, especially, are hard because you're pretty much telling the family that you're not sure Uncle Jeff didn't go to Hell if you don't hold the funeral.

I'd never assume that showing up in a church, including getting married there, is an honest profession of faith.

 

[Mercule]

Considering the god of the elves in FR has always had a pretty hazy sexuality, right from the get go, I'd say FR has had at least nods in the direction.

Corellon was an old Greyhawk/vanilla god that just got included into the Realms. Anyway, funny story:

When I was in high school, we had a kid join our group. Someone was playing an elf (with absolutely no innuendo, IIRC) and the kid asked "Is it true that all elves are gay?" After a quip about that explaining the low birth rate, we said "no" and kinda just moved on. I have no idea what this kid's previous group was like, but I guess I could see an extrapolation.

 

[Azzy]

Corellon was an old Greyhawk/vanilla god that just got included into the Realms.

Actually, Corellon was a setting-neutral god.

 

[Stormdale]

Putting propaganda in children's game is the right thing to do? OK. That makes sense.

Now, Just so I don't have to rehash this again *sigh*...

...They point at a political or at least an ideological motivation, which makes the inclusion of the LGBT a propagandist advance.

Now, part of professional career is to promote democratic values and tolerance in the developing world - so don't go saying I'm some kind of bigot, because I'm not. .

No issue with imposing neo-colonial ideologies on the rest of the world though, those poor "developing peoples" surely western democracy is the answer to all their prayers... yeah right.

 

[Mercule]

Actually, Corellon was a setting-neutral god.

That would be the "vanilla" part, after the slash. I knew someone would either say "not Greyhawk" if that's all I put or say "he was in Greyhawk" if I just said "vanilla".

 

[Wepwawet]

Putting propaganda in children's game is the right thing to do? OK. That makes sense.

Now, Just so I don't have to rehash this again *sigh*...

Propaganda: information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view.

According to the article presented in the OP, Crawford said “I wasn’t about to have this book go out and not acknowledge that people like me exist." There are two parts of the quote:

1. "I wasn’t about to have this book go out and not acknowledge..."
2. "...people like me exist."

There is nothing wrong with part 2. It's not propagandist at all. It's factual. The LGBT community exists. Personally, I see no reason why we all shouldn't embrace that community. My problem is with part 1, which shows an intent to present a certain world view.

Now, as I have stated before, the inclusion of "people like [him]" (which is a terrible way to phrase his motivation), could be handled well and make sense within the context of the source material and the adventure, but the way Crawford states his intentions is unsettling. They point at a political or at least an ideological motivation, which makes the inclusion of the LGBT a propagandist advance.

Now, part of professional career is to promote democratic values and tolerance in the developing world - so don't go saying I'm some kind of bigot, because I'm not. All I'm saying is that there is a place for political discussions, but placing ideological propaganda in a children's game is not the right way to go about it. Whether or not I agree with the message of this particular piece of propaganda is irreverent. D&D is not the right coliseum for the battle of ideas to take place, in my opinion, and I will continue to advocate that very simple, reasonable position.

• Black characters of any class
• Black WIZARDS! (imagine that, a person of colour taking a highly academic path)
• Effective female characters who are not simply the sexy sidekick
• Armour for women that actually protects them. Unlike those metal bras that perk boobs up

Until not that long ago, these would be termed as political/ideological propaganda by some people.

Nowadays we see a wide variety of peoples in the PHB and it's wonderful!
I'm a white male and I don't feel any less included because there's illustrations of female characters in the book, and of people of all colours. Obviously.

With LGBTQ characters it's exactly the same. They're simply people. People that exist and play the game.

It is very important to show how inclusive and welcoming the game is.