D&D 5E D&D Promises to Make the Game More Queer

[FrogReaver]

It wasn't a marketing campaign or a corporate statement. It was a single interview with a designer who noted a small thread of commonality in some published works over the last few years. Perhaps I'm oblivious, but I don't recall a public outcry about a gay agenda or ideological propaganda in WotC's D&D products up until this point. How exactly were they not appeasing both sides? Was it offensive that Jeremy simply pointed it out when the topic was broached by a reporter?

His answer revealed the entire situation as offensive.

 

[tombowings]

I appreciate your clarifications


I will try to explain this point, but mind you I'm pretty bad at writing... I hope I can get the meaning across.
This is a question of visibility. Of people feeling that they're part of the world.
It's the problem with "white-washing", non-caucasian people made to feel invisible and worthless because a main characters can't seem to be Asian/African/etc, only background characters.
That's why very often Gay Pride Parades take on the banner of "lesbian visibility". Everyone is so concentrated on the "struggle" of white middle-class gay men (because that's the group that typically has more power and visibility), that every other group is forgotten as if they're not important. The same if you're a man but you're not sexy and muscled.
Until recently the same happened with geeks and nerds. You'd only see the beautiful jocks and cheer leaders while geeks were ignored, unless you needed a stereotypical clever character. Luckily we're living the geek-chic period. We're stars now.

It's all part of the same process. All kinds of people exist. All are important and all should be embraced. No one should be made to feel unimportant.

That all makes sense. I agree with all of it. But we're still speaking past each other.

Once again, include the LGBT community. That's fine. I have no problem with that. I just can't support Crawford's sentiment, "I wasn’t about to have this book go out and not acknowledge that people like me exist," not because of it's content (we support LGBT), but because of its implication that D&D is now a vehicle of political rhetoric, which is off-putting.

But, as has been said, it's WotC's decision, not mine. I'm just not interested in products that intentionally push a ideological agenda, even one I agree with (as it is in this case).

 

[Warpiglet]

Eh, there's two ways to look at that.

The first is that my adult games are pretty much the same as my kid's games. Which is to say that there is no sex, but "sexuality" (as in preference) is in the background, and it's no big deal for either adults or kids. No offense to those who are into that type of game, but I don't play my D&D to have adult components (sexy time etc.), whereas it doesn't really matter to anyone if the Dwarven innkeeper is married to the guy or the gal with the beard. Hmm... that didn't come out right, did it?

Anyway, on a slightly different level, I suppose there is something a little off about running games for kids that involves wanton killing. But I have three views on this-
1. I turned out okay. Um. Mostly. I think.
2. Still not as bad as videogames, amirite?
3. It could be worse. I could expose them to Paladins and scar them for life.

Yeah, I avoid overt sexuality. It is assumed that there are romantic interests, marriages whatever but I don't want to depict any bedroom scenes. Creeps me out.

With the kids it is directed toward clearly evil monsters. It is still violent. But they are nice to people and animals so I don't think they are too f'd up!

Some of it is framing and context. I played when I was 7 (stone ages) and my creatively named "Lance" a fighter was not about peaceful solutions. I think I am OK-ish too. Mostly. Babies and animals always like me. I can't be all bad.

 

[Yaarel]

Of course there are countless example, but none taken casually. Nor was is casual when my brother came out.

It was a family ordeal for the older generations, even in modern day America.

Seriously, you have a gay brother and still cant move beyond a deeply harmful stereotype that gays are evil, demon-worshiping criminals?

Forcing your brother to continue reliving the trauma of growing up in a family that was taught to hate gays, ... seems homophobic to me.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[FrogReaver]

Seriously, you have a gay brother and still cant move beyond a deeply harmful stereotype that gays are evil, demon-worshiping criminals?

Forcing your brother to continue reliving the trauma of growing up in a family that was taught to hate gays, ... seems homophobic to me.

This is another great example of the love and inclusion coming from one side....

 

[TwoSix]

Once again, include the LGBT community. That's fine. I have no problem with that. I just can't support Crawford's sentiment, "I wasn’t about to have this book go out and not acknowledge that people like me exist," not because of it's content (we support LGBT), but because of its implication that D&D is now a vehicle of political rhetoric, which is off-putting.

To my mind, the issue is that LGBT acceptance has reached a point (at least within Western society) where the standards of discussion about the issue are moving from being a point of political contention to a point of simple moral truth, much like how we all share a belief that murder, violence, and violation of consent are wrong. You wouldn't say "It might be controversial to include the fact that Toril is round, because Flat Earthers might be offended", at least I would assume.

of course, even making the point that some things shouldn't be points of partisan difference is, in and of itself, a point of partisan difference in our current climate, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

 

[tombowings]

Seriously, you have a gay brother and still cant move beyond a deeply harmful stereotype that gays are evil, demon-worshiping criminals?

Forcing your brother to continue reliving the trauma of growing up in a family that was taught to hate gays, ... seems homophobic to me.

They aren't harmful sterotypes, though. They're historical facts that make sense within the context of the world I run. To do anything else would betray the world I've created.

As to why I would create this world, I don't know. Maybe I'm a little morbid. If you've read much Jack Vance you'd understand. It's not that people there are particularly mean to the LBGT community, it's that everyone there is a terrible person. Around 95% (maybe more) of the NPCs are of an evil alignment. It's just not a very nice place. Not the sort of "I'm going to kill you because...randomness" evil, but the "I am super lazy, but will do anything to accomplish my selfish goals at anyone else's expense" sort of evil. Right now, the characters are working together to destroy the world so all those NPCs that screwed them over at one point or another will get their comeuppance. We're all having a great time.

I actually used to have another setting where literally everyone one was good, but had vastly priorities and living conditions, which placed them all in constant conflict. That setting became so stressful for the players that I had to throw it out because they were constantly fighting against the "good guys" no matter which way they turned in an unending circle of intrigue and violence. The players had less fun with that one.

 

[Ristamar]

His answer revealed the entire situation as offensive.

So his formerly secret desire for inclusiveness and representation is now "offensive" regardless of the successful tact and subtlety utilized in the products' execution because of a perceived agenda?

Ultimately, I'm not sure I understand why you're offended without wrapping around to my original point of contention. It feels like you're actively looking to take personal offense or take offense on behalf of a another group that, as far as I can tell, has not yet expressed any misgivings or asked for anyone to protest on their behalf.

 

[Yaarel]

This is another great example of the love and inclusion coming from one side....

Well, the truth is, I want inclusivity to be normative. Humans are diverse, and it is necessary to learn how to coexist with others − even to require others to learn how to coexist.

I want to see monotheists feel comfortable playing the D&D game, too.