D&D 5E Player vs DM dice rolls
- Thread starter atolley
- Start date
Rya.Reisender
Explorer
When the player wants his PC to do something and the result isn't clear, the DM asks the player to do a dice roll. If the player makes his PC run into a trap, the DM asks the player to do a saving throw.
If the DM does actions for NPCs where the result isn't clear, he rolls himself.
Some DMs roll dice related to PC actions too because they want to keep them secret, but I'm not a fan of that approach. I rather just keep the DC secret.
If the DM does actions for NPCs where the result isn't clear, he rolls himself.
Some DMs roll dice related to PC actions too because they want to keep them secret, but I'm not a fan of that approach. I rather just keep the DC secret.
Imaculata
Hero
I think that's already covered pretty extensively by the Player Handbook and Dungeon Master Guide. So if you haven't read those yet, that is probably the best place to start. If however you did read through these books, but didn't understand, then we can be of help.
Usually the dice rolls made by the players, are merely those that relate directly to their characters. These include making attacks, dealing damage, making saves, and making checks. But it is the DM who decides when such a roll is called for, or not. And I cannot stress that last bit enough: You don't always need to roll dice. As a player you declare an action, and it is the DM that decides if the outcome is uncertain, and if a dice roll is required to resolve the uncertainty.
Dice rolls made by the DM usually include all of the attacks, damage, saves and checks that npc's and monsters make. However, if the players have npc-allies that effectively serve as party members, the DM may choose to have the players roll for them too, since they are part of the party. The DM generally rolls for anything that relates to the world that the players interact with. Sometimes those rolls are made in secret. Sometimes the DM may even choose to make some passive checks for the party. But the latter all comes down to personal preference.
Usually the dice rolls made by the players, are merely those that relate directly to their characters. These include making attacks, dealing damage, making saves, and making checks. But it is the DM who decides when such a roll is called for, or not. And I cannot stress that last bit enough: You don't always need to roll dice. As a player you declare an action, and it is the DM that decides if the outcome is uncertain, and if a dice roll is required to resolve the uncertainty.
Dice rolls made by the DM usually include all of the attacks, damage, saves and checks that npc's and monsters make. However, if the players have npc-allies that effectively serve as party members, the DM may choose to have the players roll for them too, since they are part of the party. The DM generally rolls for anything that relates to the world that the players interact with. Sometimes those rolls are made in secret. Sometimes the DM may even choose to make some passive checks for the party. But the latter all comes down to personal preference.
I recently had this conversation with my players. A few of them were advocating for the DM (me) rolling for stealth, so that if they rolled poorly they wouldn't immediately know the repercussions of it. While I can sort of understand that approach, the way I see it is that if a character obviously failed to be stealthy (made a loud footstep, got caught in an unexpected patch of light, tripped over their own two feet when they roll that hard 1), the character would know they done goofed, their allies may very well know it, and they'd try to adjust/recover accordingly. What they obviously wouldn't know is the perception of whatever NPC/enemy or other environmental affect it may have, and what reaction it might cause if they're detected, so that remains behind the screen. So I'm still of the mind that players should roll for stealth themselves, but interested to see how others handle it.
iserith
Magic Wordsmith
You can do it where you call for the roll when it actually matters which is when something would happen on a success or failure, rather than calling for the roll immediately after the action declaration. Doing it this way means there's no need for secrecy at all.
Just to echo other people, if it affects the PC they roll if it affects monsters/NPCs I roll.
There are times when I will roll but this really depends on the group and what they want. For example, I will sometimes roll perception checks (or use their passives) because they may not notice anything.
In a few cases I'll make saving throws for them when the PC would not be aware of a spell or effect. For example if they've been hit by a slaad and they have never encountered or heard of one before they would have no idea they might be "infected".
There are times when I will roll but this really depends on the group and what they want. For example, I will sometimes roll perception checks (or use their passives) because they may not notice anything.
In a few cases I'll make saving throws for them when the PC would not be aware of a spell or effect. For example if they've been hit by a slaad and they have never encountered or heard of one before they would have no idea they might be "infected".
aco175
Legend
I even let the players roll the saving throws for the monsters. I liked the 3e spells where you attacked the reflex or fortitude. As a player playing a mage I may never get to roll the dice to see if I hit. I tell the DM I fireball the room for 30 damage. He makes 20 monster saves, or worse groups them into only rolling 2-3 times. As a DM I tell the player little guys have +0 to save and the others +2 to save. I trust him enough to hit or miss accordingly. This leaves me not taking time to roll and I can move on and it lets the player enjoy rolling dice.
The odd problem with this is that when I tell the player the monster save is +10 and he was expecting +3. Suddenly something is up and the player is now knowing something hidden or illusion or such. It does not really come up often and I usually let a roll on perception or such to determine that the monster is part demon or high level or something.
The odd problem with this is that when I tell the player the monster save is +10 and he was expecting +3. Suddenly something is up and the player is now knowing something hidden or illusion or such. It does not really come up often and I usually let a roll on perception or such to determine that the monster is part demon or high level or something.
Tony Vargas
Legend
All the dice rolls should be made by the DM, behind the concealment of a DM's Screen, so the players have no idea what he actually rolled.
Seriously, though, attacks are rolled by the player of the PC making the attack or the DM if any non-PC is making the attacks. Saves are rolled by the PC targeted by the attack that forced the save, by the DM if a player forces an NPC/monster to save. When a player declares an action, the DM describes the results, and if he determines there's some uncertainty about said results he calls for a roll, made by the player. Similarly, if the DM decides a monster or NPC is doing something and wants to inject an element of uncertainty, he'll roll.
When the PCs take an action where the results are in question, they make a roll. If there is a chance for a PC to avoid an effect (i.e. saving throw), they make a roll.
Everything else is rolled by the DM. This includes: NPC/monster rolls (attacks, checks, and saves), passive checks, wandering monsters, random treasure, percentile chances, recharge abilities, and anything else that may come up.
You touch on a good point of how a DM communicates the dice rolls in the context of the fiction / game to the players. When my rogue players makes a stealth check to hide before sneaking out and shooting an enemy, I let the player know if the NPC perceives the character. In my mind this keeps the game simple enough such that it allows a player to make an informed decision on their action rather than being in a "got you" moment of not knowing they failed on the stealth check and suddenly do not get the sneak attack damage. I should note, that I use the word "perceive" specially because tremor sense, blind sense, etc. allows perception of the PC regardless of the stealth roll, depending on the circumstances. As an example, the rogue attempted to hide behind a pillar with a roll of a 13 on one round and a 15 on the second round. The NPC the character was hiding from was a umberhulk, which has tremor sense. After the first round the player thought the umberhulk may have a high perception. After the second round, the player came to the conclusion that the umberhulk has tremor sense. Now that the player was aware of this I indicated that additional detail on the hide attempt to conceal from the tremor sense could make the attempt successful. The player suggested there wasn't a way to do this, so we moved on.
For group stealth rolls, I allow every player to roll and I compare the average or median value to the passive perceptions of the NPCs. Those NPCs with a score slightly lower than the PCs roll give an indication that they may have heard something, but move on. Those that have scores higher than the roll, will move to investigate what they heard or saw.
Spells or abilities that attack the mind of the PCs I like to describe as the PC feeling another force entering their mind, but if the player makes the save, then the character forces that influence from their head. Now the player knows something is going on even if they didn't see the source of the mind altering spell or ability.
