D&D General Should the DM roll in the open?

[Scott Christian]

I am unwilling to make assumptions about people's drives and motives in discussion until they make it overwhelmingly obvious.

That's fair. I was simply providing one possible explanation. There are many more valid explanations.

 

[Scott Christian]

I'd say that depends on how broadly you use "lie". A lot of groups consider some degree of illusionism not only acceptable but expected. Fudging is an element of that. I think it overstates the situation when you have a procedure that is at least accepted and often approved by the player group. Its untruthful--but so are magic tricks.

I agree. Which is why it's odd you cut off my next sentence in the quote. It states:

(And I don't mean lie as a sinful act. There are many games where you lie, and those can be very fun.)

This implies many aspects of lie, including illusionism. It does not change the definition of lie. It's semantics again just like fudging. In the reality show, Survivor, they lie. It can be really fun for many people to watch them lie. It is not the same lie that someone does in court to get out of a murder charge. But both still meet the definition of lie. As does, I rolled three 1s in a row, but they are going to kill the big boss without any suspense - therefore I am going to lie to my players and tell them he rolled a 12 and his attack worked.
In society we have created all sorts of titles to try and differentiate a lie. There's a white lie a wife might tell a husband. There's a damn lie, which is a bad-bad lie. There is a bold-faced lie. There is plagiarism. There is a broken promise. There is a compulsive liar. There is hyperbole. etc. All meet the definition of lie - just like fudging.

 

[jasper]

1..... Therefore, if you, as DM need to fudge, it should be ok for your players to do so as well.

......

2. As for Adventurer's League, I would imagine you as DM know that there are a lot of new and young players that have their first experience with D&D on that night.

1. It is okay for a DM to fudge RARELY. Say 2%. Players only fudge is they buy at the store for the DM bribe.
2. I have players from first timers to started playing with the little white books.

3. Therefore, I would imagine you know they are not min-maxing. You know that the encounters should have a "way out." You know the encounters should be less deadly because new players. You know this, just like you know the encounters should be tailored to two-hour sessions.

4. I am guessing that with 156 deaths, how many of those were brought back? I mean, players can have access to revivify pretty early on in the game. Maybe a temple nearby that can resurrect? Maybe a god intervening allowing for advantage on death saves? Maybe another player that just walks over and puts a goodberry or healing potion in the PCs mouth? Maybe someone 60' away simply casting a healing word? Maybe a deal with the devil to get them back?

3. Min Max. Searching the web for interest 27 point buy builds. The encounters range from push overs to each fight is deadly. It depends on the module. Run time varies from 1 hour to 8 hours modules, and if you are running a book, whatever the time frame at the store/con gives you.
4. About 4 of those deaths were DEAD DEAD. The rest were free raises due to faction pity, lose a magic item, group pay, or free resurrection between sessions. It depended on the season. And with the free respawn of the most recent changes, I have no pity for any one playing for over 6 months regularly.

5. As for you knowing every class and sub-class and species abilities - you don't. But, with minimal experience you can predict how much damage a third level party can take. You can estimate pretty accurately the damage output of your encounter. Thanks to bounded accuracy, you can figure out the PCs "to hit" rate with minimal effort. 5a) You can also just look at the classes and probably guess their damage output. You can do all of this with minimal error.

5. I have a sign in sheet which lists PC AC and HP. And the players know the AC HP of monsters. So dishing out and taking damage is no problem. Until stupid tactics and two or more nat 20s arrive at the table.
5a). YOU CAN, I can't. And I been playing 5E since May of 2016.

PS - As for my playstyle, it is neither ATeam nor Captain Kirk. I prefer a grittier game. But I play D&D, and I understand that it is a group game. If my DMs enjoy the way they run it, and the other players do to, then I will get enjoyment out of everyone having fun.

PS. I see. Some where I have the six types of play. I see if I can post it. If I can find it.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I agree. Which is why it's odd you cut off my next sentence in the quote. It states:

Because I didn't think it was relevant. My point was it was using "lie" in a way I thought was misapplied and overly broad.

This implies many aspects of lie, including illusionism. It does not change the definition of lie. It's semantics again

I've made it abundantly clear I do not consider semantic distinctions trivial. "Lie" has a lot of semantic loading, and acting like it doesn't really doesn't seem to serve discussion well. As I said, no one would in any normal context describe a magic trick as a "lie".

 

[Hriston]

I roll monster surprise checks in the open because, at that point, it's been determined an encounter is going to happen, and I'm just checking to see who in the party might be surprised.

One roll I've been in the habit of hiding is a terrain roll against the party navigator's passive Survival score, so the party can get lost and travel in the wrong direction for some time without realizing.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I roll monster surprise checks in the open because, at that point, it's been determined an encounter is going to happen, and I'm just checking to see who in the party might be surprised.

Very much this

One roll I've been in the habit of hiding is a terrain roll against the party navigator's passive Survival score, so the party can get lost and travel in the wrong direction for some time without realizing.

This could also be accomplished rolling in the open. With a sliding failure scale, you can determine how long/far they've gone in the wrong direction.

 

[Thomas Shey]

One roll I've been in the habit of hiding is a terrain roll against the party navigator's passive Survival score, so the party can get lost and travel in the wrong direction for some time without realizing.

Yeah, that's one of those perception-ish things I do hidden too in games where there's something like it (to make it clear, may not be necessary if you've got people really good at firewalling, but I generally just don't feel the need to make them do the work in that area).

 

[Hriston]

This could also be accomplished rolling in the open. With a sliding failure scale, you can determine how long/far they've gone in the wrong direction.

I'm not sure I know what a sliding failure scale is. Do you mean something like degrees of failure? I think there's something like that in the 5.0 DMG, but I don't use it because it's sort of abstract, and I like to map things out hex by hex.

 

[Hriston]

Yeah, that's one of those perception-ish things I do hidden too in games where there's something like it (to make it clear, may not be necessary if you've got people really good at firewalling, but I generally just don't feel the need to make them do the work in that area).

Yep, it's frequently not necessary. If the party's got a good navigator or they're traveling through easy terrain, they just get where they're going. There's only a roll sometimes if the terrain is more difficult.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I'm not sure I know what a sliding failure scale is. Do you mean something like degrees of failure? I think there's something like that in the 5.0 DMG, but I don't use it because it's sort of abstract, and I like to map things out hex by hex.

Yes, degrees of failure is what I was getting at.

For example on a DC 15 WIS(Survival) check, one might use the following:

11-14: the party has travelled 1 hour (or 1 hex) in the wrong direction
6-10: the party has travelled 4 hours (or 2 hexes) in the wrong direction
1-5: the party has travelled 8+ hours (or...) in the wrong direction

Or simply 1 hour for each point below 15

Or something else that makes sense for the specific campaign / travel sequence.