D&D 5E Players Self-Assigning Rolls

[iserith]

it's not a caricature (unless it is one you created to take your idea to the exteme) you have told us over and over you will tell a player that asks a question to rephrase it as an action...
as for yours, I have had a lot of experience not just with my group (althouth mostly) but at cons, and store and online games... I have VERY rarely seen someone declair multi if then statements...


almost no normal conversation goes "I want to juggle the doorknob to see if it's locked, and if it isn't I open the door"... even typing it is a mouth full

Maybe I have a bigger mouth.

And I don't think it would be honest to claim you couldn't have come up with a more succinct example than the one you did regardless of whether you think my example fell short.

 

[Sunseeker]

And here we see the problem with asking questions instead a taking actions....?

Nice try, but your attempts at twisting my words to your benefit are more likely to land you on my ignore list than prove your point. It's quite rude you know.

 

[Sunseeker]

almost no normal conversation goes "I want to juggle the doorknob to see if it's locked, and if it isn't I open the door"... even typing it is a mouth full

Because, in part, it's still a question. "I want to..." is a roundabout way of asking the DM if it is possible to jiggle the doorknob. It's not a stated action. It's at best a stated potential course of action to which the only real response the DM has is "Okay, well, do you?" Because if the DM were to respond with "When you jiggle the handle..." it would be imparting the action upon the player. I'm not saying that's wrong, I'm saying the player still never stated an actual action, only a possible course of action.

Which is why I find these word games silly.

If Bob says "Is the door locked." At worst the DM can ask: "Do you try the handle?" To which the player can respond "Yes." Or "No." or something else, but then ideally that should be a stated action.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Maybe I have a bigger mouth.

And I don't think it would be honest to claim you couldn't have come up with a more succinct example than the one you did regardless of whether you think my example fell short.

watch how much easier this flows

Player: is the door locked?
DM: Nope, the next room is covered in old mildew stains, but the air feels dry in here. the walls have some carvings on them, and an old well sits in the center of the room.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Because, in part, it's still a question. "I want to..." is a roundabout way of asking the DM if it is possible to jiggle the doorknob. It's not a stated action. It's at best a stated potential course of action to which the only real response the DM has is "Okay, well, do you?" Because if the DM were to respond with "When you jiggle the handle..." it would be imparting the action upon the player. I'm not saying that's wrong, I'm saying the player still never stated an actual action, only a possible course of action.

Which is why I find these word games silly.

If Bob says "Is the door locked." At worst the DM can ask: "Do you try the handle?" To which the player can respond "Yes." Or "No." or something else, but then ideally that should be a stated action.

now that seems like a real world game to me... Iserith the biggest champion of "take an action" came up with that one (unless I misstyped it) so I don't know...

 

[iserith]

Because, in part, it's still a question. "I want to..." is a roundabout way of asking the DM if it is possible to jiggle the doorknob. It's not a stated action. It's at best a stated potential course of action to which the only real response the DM has is "Okay, well, do you?"

"2. The players describe what they want to do."

- Basic Rules, page 3

 

[redrick]

watch how much easier this flows

Player: is the door locked?
DM: Nope, the next room is covered in old mildew stains, but the air feels dry in here. the walls have some carvings on them, and an old well sits in the center of the room.

Wait, you went from a question about the door being locked to moving the characters into the next room? That wouldn't fly with me.

How do you know that the player was asking if the door was locked in order to immediately open it? If all I wanted to do was go into the next room, I would have just said that. "My barbarian is gonna go through the door into the next room." At which point the DM would tell me, "You go to push the door open, but it's locked."

----EDITED TO ADD----

Honestly, the only reason I can see for asking if a door is locked is if I specifically didn't want to go through it. In my life, there are two times I learn about a door being locked. One is when I am trying to open it and I go "damn, locked, better find my keys," and the other is when I am wanting to keep people from coming through the door, and I check to make sure it is locked before walking away from it.

 

[iserith]

watch how much easier this flows

Player: is the door locked?
DM: Nope, the next room is covered in old mildew stains, but the air feels dry in here. the walls have some carvings on them, and an old well sits in the center of the room.

It flows just as easily as my example in my view. But you had to assume what the player wanted to do - open the unlocked door.

That's okay with you. It's not okay with me. That it's okay with you is okay with me. We don't play D&D together after all. (Also okay.)

 

[Sunseeker]

"2. The players describe what they want to do."

- Basic Rules, page 3

Thaaaaaaanks, but I have the book. I can do without the snark.

Wouldn't be much point to discussing the rules if we all just said "Oh the rules say XYZ that's how it works forever and always for everyone!" now would there?

Besides that, this is a discussion about playstyle not rules. The rules in D&D have very little bearing on the methods in which people play, as this very thread is evidence of by the infinite variety in infinite combinations that people have spoken to. So if you're trying to suggest that I'm wrong by claiming the rules are telling players how to speak while playing I would A: appreciate the directness if you simply said "no you're wrong." and B: you would also be wrong, since that's not what that line is saying.

 

[iserith]

Thaaaaaaanks, but I have the book. I can do without the snark.

Wouldn't be much point to discussing the rules if we all just said "Oh the rules say XYZ that's how it works forever and always for everyone!" now would there?

It's not snark. My example wasn't a question or a round about way of asking anything. It was what the player is expected to do in the basic conversation of the game.

"Sometimes, resolving a task is easy. If an adventurer wants to walk across a room and open a door, the DM might just say that the door opens and describe what lies beyond. But the door might be locked, the floor might hide a deadly trap, or some other circumstance might make it challenging for an adventurer to complete a task. In those cases, the DM decides what happens, often relying on a roll of a die to determine the results of an action."

^ Also not snark.