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D&D 5E On Murderhobos

Is this really that common?

I know such behavior from people when playing cRPGs and think they'll get a trinket or some item by killing every single questgiver as soon as he's "useless".
But running around killing innocents in a PnP campaing? For what?
Are they bored maybe? Or is there not enough combat against evil guys to keep them entertained?

Imho people would only do that for a longer period of time, if that behavior is rewarded. If it's not, they'll stop.
 

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My first suggestion is to talk to them. I establish in my games that I don't want any evil characters (and no evil characters masquerading as neutral). I just let them know that I'm interested in heroic fantasy and if they can't adjust I may not be the right DM for them.

If that doesn't work...

Send in the army/alternative group. If there are adventurers there are other NPCs that are as or more powerful than they are, at least in my world. People with classes and levels are rare, they aren't unique. Or just send a big enough lynch mob.

They don't have any friends. Nobody wants to deal with them, nobody will buy their ill-gotten gains.

They've caused so much chaos, and weakened resources so much that the enemy kingdom/orcs/big bad invade destroying everything including the party. If they try to cry wolf nobody believes them, if they try to help they are attacked by both sides.

For a higher fantasy campaign...

They get "recruited". A demon has heard of their exploits and decides that their souls would make good lieutenants in his army. Unfortunately he has to kill them first and take their souls. He does appreciate all the fine work they've done though.

Prayers are answered. Celestial beings come down and smack them around.
 

The terminology seems to be shifting, I used to see it just used to refer to the general thing where PCs are typically homeless (in the sense of "no fixed residence") and do nothing much for a living but kill. Doesn't mean they kill random poor people for no reason.
 

With 5es bounded accucacy this isn’t as as much of a problem as it used to be. You get a contingent of soldiers and they will bring a lot of pain. Some a kingdom would have with it takes to reign in problematic people like that
 

Well for me, If my players aren't playing in Ravenloft or Dark Sun (which if you're playing there, being a murderhobo causes entirely different problems), then it is actually hard to get away with being a murderhobo. I think of myself as a reactionary DM. I try to stay away from linear plots, beyond the setting and the adventure hook, I only write the villains and their motivations. Everything else is moved by the players.

My first question is, in a world such as the one you described how is it possible that the players could get away with abusing everyone around them for an extended period of time and still make it to high level? Outside of supernatural forces (fiends, undead, elementals,fey, monstrosities), living natural disasters (dragons,primordials, gods) even villains have to have tact. Even the most bloodthirsty bandit knows that he can't walk into town and kill the nobility. In any world that isn't ruled by savagery (see Dark sun) it shouldn't be a realistic option. I am not telling you or anyone else that their players can't accomplish whatever psychopathic deed that they have on the agenda that day, but when you do things like that the rest of the world takes notice. You become enemies of the state, bounties are placed on heads, law enforcement will come after player characters in force, and last but not least you start attracting unhinged doo gooders that resemble characters like Batman, Paladin Anderson (Hellsing), The Punisher (Marvel). As a Dm few things are more satisfying than having an innocent character who was brutalized by such a party turn into a psychotic revenge seeking malcontent.

Moving on to actual reasons why being a murderhobo is not only hard but stupid.

1) Image - Public opinion will be very low of the party if they are tolerated at all. They could very easily be forced out of town or have the local authorities attempt to lock them away after they commit some nonsensical murder.

2) Resources - If murderhobos suffer from an extremely negative public image (as they should) it will be hard to acquire resources in a traditional manner. If the towns won't permit you entry and the army is looking for you it becomes difficult to find food and water especially if the party isn't proficient at living off the land. Even other criminals such as the Zhentarim will shun outright murderers, you will be forced to associate with increasingly disreputable individuals as your infamy spreads.

3) Birds of a feather - Picking up off the 2nd point. In order to acquire goods, magic items, food etc, the party will be forced to deal with depraved and corrupt societies, that is if they don't go full banditry and start pillaging towns. The danger with associating with these kind of groups or creatures is that you aren't one of them and you don't know if they will turn on you and try to enslave you or whatever (happens a lot in the underdark, see drow, neogi, mindflayers, duergar).

4) Heroes of the Realm - If your campaign isn't full of sheep that are powerless in the face of the player characters, then there should be highly competent and dangerous Npcs somewhere in the setting. If the player characters continue their murdering psychotic ways and somehow avoid dying a dogs death in the wilderness, execution or life imprisonment, then paladins, clerics, and good aligned adventurers should start to pursue them, be it for revenge, acclaim, or whatever reason you need to justify some smiting.

5)Running afoul of greater evil - If somehow these players haven't died yet I'm questioning the Dm at this point, or maybe it's a villain campaign now, or maybe they are just as tenacious as they are psychotic. The types of personalities that lend themselves to becoming murderhobos are on average pretty arrogant and combative. These players are unlikely to be respectful to others and why should they, they are the bandit kings and queens of this world, robbing, killing, and pillaging as they please. But eventually if the DM is so inclined they could come across an evil that dwarfs their own, it may be a lich, it may be a dragon, a demon or devil but regardless if the players take their usual positions with this creature it should have dire consequences.

6) Betrayal - Last but not least arguably the most likely end to murderhobos, betrayal from within the party. Greed and murder as primary driving forces don't lead to a cohesive unit. I've seen it happen before, players start coveting the shiny things that one or another of them has and it culminates in theft or murder. Or it could be party members butting heads over who is the "leader" of the band of psychopaths, these kind of players don't lend themselves well to being second fiddle.

There might be more reasons but yeah.....murderhoboing is not sustainable.
 
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The terminology seems to be shifting, I used to see it just used to refer to the general thing where PCs are typically homeless (in the sense of "no fixed residence") and do nothing much for a living but kill. Doesn't mean they kill random poor people for no reason.

My thoughts exactly. We have played villainous sorts who were fugitives. Fun stuff. We have also played questing heroes who happen to have enemies chasing them across the land or are otherwise "on a mission." In the first case we caused trouble and were thieving sorts. Violence followed! In the later case, we would help people along the way if possible.

We played characters with alignment. Butchering innocents is the problem. Discussing alignment if inclined or goals is the fix. How can the DM complain about criminal sorts being criminals? The problem is supposedly lawful good sorts killing innocents for money etc.

I understand people have issues with the alignment system. I do too. However, it does help to paint with a broad brush and set expectations. One of our first discussions before starting a campaign is "evil neutral or good group." Right there we know what we are in for and so does the DM.

I am starting a campaign in the next week or two. I asked for good and neutral characters in addition to general motivations. No one said murder and mayhem. I don't anticipate a problem.
 

Ask the group the following question:

"Are you having fun with this?"

If the answer is No, have a new "Session Zero" about campaign expectations.

If the answer is Yes, ask YOURSELF the same question.

If the answer is Yes again, problem solved. Carry on with the murderhoboing.

If the answer is No again, fold the campaign and see if someone else wants to run.
 

See if this is the kind of game the players enjoy. If they like being 'off the leash' in their play, portraying villainous miscreants, then that's what they like to play. If you're not into it you can let them know it's not working for you or let them know that their actions will have consequences and see what their reaction is. Perhaps they want that challenge or perhaps they'll complain. One path lets you keep running, the other indicates it's probably time to hang it up with this group.

As for murder hobos - typically those are itinerant, shoot-first-ask-questions-later types that are pretty morally flexible when it comes to why they choose violence over more civilized approaches to problem solving. Your group sounds like they're evil.
 

See if this is the kind of game the players enjoy. If they like being 'off the leash' in their play, portraying villainous miscreants, then that's what they like to play. If you're not into it you can let them know it's not working for you or let them know that their actions will have consequences and see what their reaction is. Perhaps they want that challenge or perhaps they'll complain. One path lets you keep running, the other indicates it's probably time to hang it up with this group.

As for murder hobos - typically those are itinerant, shoot-first-ask-questions-later types that are pretty morally flexible when it comes to why they choose violence over more civilized approaches to problem solving. Your group sounds like they're evil.

Well, the only thing that has ever enticed a little caution in them is an overwhelming show of force...
 

Issues with not having the page-setting conversation prior to starting the game aside (Session Zero), I've often noticed that murderhoboing tends to be a symptom of an underlying problem and not the problem itself.

The problem itself in my experience is a lack of dramatic conflict that engages the players. Having to work hard to find adventure, long tavern scenes with nothing to do but posture, needing to interview a long line of cagey, quirky NPCs before getting to something interesting, spending session time on mundane tasks like shopping... these things can lead to players seeking out their own drama by robbing barkeeps, murdering the smith, and fighting guards in the street.

So I would suggest, on top of having that page-setting conversation, is to review your game and make sure it's one of bold adventurers confronting deadly perils in fantastic adventure locations. And that it's not hard to get to that sort of engaging content.
 

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