We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread

[Maxperson]

Do we know this for a fact? Living tutors didn't seem to stop the Jedi Order from becoming sclerotic and producing the weapon that would ultimately bring them down. A living tutor didn't prevent Ben Solo from being corrupted by a Dark Force outsider. Maybe it's time for a completely different approach.

Look at what Yoda did in training Luke. Nothing that we saw him do needed him to be there in person. He could have guided Luke, demonstrated forms, etc. as a force ghost. He did sit on Luke's back as he ran, but he could just as easily told Luke to tie a log onto his shoulders and proceeded through that portion as a force ghost as well.

 

[hopeless]

Maybe episode 9 is set from the view of the Imperials?
Snoke is dead maybe his rule like Palpatine was based around him so they might seek help from Leia after learning of the battle of Crait?

 

[OB1]

The CAnto/casino storyline is definitely the weakest part of the series. I wonder if they just forget about it, or will actually make something about it. Instead of just rebuilding a new rebellion and a new army, will they go after the profiteers?

But I am having trouble building this into a trilogy-finishing Star Wars movie.

Well, it's not my challenge to solve, it's up to Abrams and his team.

Shouldn't be too hard. There are really only two things that need to happen.

1. End the Skywalker bloodline
2. Establish the rebirth of the Jedi

Assuming we are at least 5-6 years past the end of TLJ, the plot of IX could be told from the POV of Kylo searching for Rey, obsessed with ending the Jedi forever. The First Order, under his command, has failed to hold much, if any, of the galaxy, but their overwhelming power means that they can lay waste to anyone who directly confronts them. Kylo forces Leia out of hiding, boards her ship, kills the rebels, and then kills her when she silently refuses to tell him where the Rey and the New Jedi are. The map was on her ship anyhow.

Rey has been busy synthesizing what she learns in the Jedi texts, and a new order of Jedi have emerged, not with a top down structure like the old order, but a diverse one with masters training students in the way they feel is right. They are attacked by the First Order but escape. Kylo continues to chase Rey.

Eventually, Kylo and Rey come into direct conflict. Rey takes a stand, fights him (probably against the advice of Luke) and is victorious.

With no Supreme Leader, General Hux requests an end to hostilities, ending the war. Hux may even be secretly working behind Kylo's back to bring this about.

 

[hopeless]

Not bad

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

So far, Kylo seems to have lost every fight against Rey... Her winning again seems like a foregone conclusion.

So maybe he beats her? Or they fall in love.

 

[hopeless]

Please God no!
That idea needs to be shoved into whatever hole the Twilight Saga currently dwells!
As for the first part, didn't he use her to usurp Snoke's throne?
He technically won that didn't he?

 

[Warmaster Horus]

Saw it last night. What a disappointment. Just an incoherent mess made for global audience distribution - lots of explosions, cuteness and posing - and utterly bereft of storytelling. If failure is a great lesson, this movie has a PhD. It had the dramatic tension of an overcooked noodle, with many characters literally accomplishing nothing for the entirety of the film and major revelations that were passing puffs of smoke, hard to fathom and very unsatisfying.

And at the end the Rebel Alliance, or whatever their service organization is called now, is small enough to fit into the Millenium Falcon and kid force-users can use their gift to sweep the stables of the one percent.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think the ultimate problem I have with the sequels is that it feels like someone added a new epilogue to the Star Wars fairy tale at Episode VI, crawling over the screen after the final scene:

"The Republic is restored with the death of the Emperor and Darth Vader. Leia and Han marry and have a son Ben, and he is powerful in the Force. Luke begins training Ben in the way of the Jedi, but Ben is corrupted by the Dark Force User Snoke. In a crisis of faith, Luke decides against killing his nephew, but this sends Ben over the edge to the Dark Side. Luke runs away, giving up on the Jedi and the Force, hoping to die on a remote planet. Han and Leia separate over their despair over their son. Meanwhile, the Republic refuses to organize to defend the against the newly forming First Order controlled by Snoke, and Leia is forced out of her position in the Republic, joining a Resistance that hopes to stop the First Order. In secret, the First Order is building a new superweapon, even more powerful than the dreaded Death Star, plotting to destroy the Republic once again."

And that is just not something I like. It's as if Disney would suddenly decide to go for the Hans Christian Andersen version of the Little Mermaid in the end (you know, the one where is turned into foam after she doesn't marry the Prince she fell in love with).

---

But ignoring this, I like Luke's final actions in the movie. It mirrors Obi Wan - Obi Wan wasn't simply killed in a duel by Darth Vader. He had put Luke on a good path and secured his escape, and he stopped fighting and let Vader take the final blow - allowing him to become one with the Force. Whether Force Ghosts are "more powerful than you can ever imagine" in the traditional meaning of powerful (like calling lightning) or the spiritual or not, it is certainly a noteworthy achievement. Luke scenes with Kylo is also is another reminder that The Force is not about swinging light sabers and levitating rocks - Ken might be good with the light saber, but he didn't see what was really going on, and that shows Luke's (and maybe with that, also the Jedi/Light Side) superiority over him.

 

[hopeless]

What if they reveal Snoke was the reason the Emperor was so overconfident in ROTJ?
Snoke was the power behind the throne who had more respect for Vader over the Emperor so was genuinely shaken by Vader returning to the light?
Still doesn't explain everything but it might resolve that problem at least?

 

[Manbearcat]

I thought that the Last Jedi was a mess. I knew the end of luke skywalker's story was coming - and I wanted it to come to end - but it was done in such clumsy, wishy washy fashion which contradicted the original stories. That is Luke is now a coward who finally decides to skype in, Leia who starts out with republic but two films later can fit the whole resistance in the Millennium Falcon, chewy/R2D2/C3PO did less to push the story along than the Porgs (which were great btw). Surely you can build a new series without hollowing out this legacy?

Aside from the lack of engagement with this legacy, and the lack of continuity with the Force Awakens (so many dropped story lines), I just didnt enjoy it as film. Sure, it had great moments and great ideas but then it had moments I found really distracting (suddenly space fuel is a thing, bombs in space, space Leia doing the mary poppins thing, the whole casino story line, hyperdrives as a weapon, etc). How did a film with this budget get beyond the story board phase?

It is the only SW film where I regularly check my watch and I wondered if Star Trek fan club is still taking applicants.

But the story was uneven, lots of scenes ultimately don't go anywhere (no pay off), several jokes fall flat, and the editing is occasionally a bit jarring. Some scenes go on too long, or they cut back to something we've already seen, with no real progression of the story. And then some other scenes end too abruptly, and do not allow the scene to settle with the audience (which you need).

This movie has a lot of pacing and editing problems. Plus this not only is a long movie, but it FEELS long. After the whole casino and space race bit, I remembered from the trailer that surely there's still an entire battle on the planet krait with AT-AT's that is supposed to happen. And I honestly thought to myself, how much longer is this going to be? I'm fine with movies that are a bit longer. Sometimes you are so drawn into a movie, that time flies by, and you don't even notice the length. But due to some serious pacing problems during the second act, you really notice that it drags on.

Ending a long posting hiatus to not talk about RPG theory!

I loved the Force Awakens and obviously the original trilogy (with Empire being one of my favorite movies of all time). I think I'll take the lazy way out and just mash together these two posts to do the heavy lifting because they do a great job of abridging my thoughts on the movie. The only thing I'll add is "this trilogy has a villain problem."

I thought the first 10 minutes or so was classic Star Wars swashbuckling fun and X-Wing action. After that it was jarring and tedious and annoying in a dozen ways (captured well above and in other posts in the thread which cite issues with Luke's characterization and arc) and I just wanted it over with. I was bored and annoyed while watching it (we - humans - won't get a second chance to make this movie), left the theater dissatisfied from both a classic Star Wars tropes perspective and from a general moviegoer perspective, and my dissatisfaction has only grown upon introspection.

I went from satisfied and excitedly drawn in after TFA for this whole trilogy to completely mentally checked out after TLJ. Assuming I'm alive for its release, odds or slim I go to the theater for the 3rd movie (which is extraordinary for someone like me to say).