D&D 5E Playable Centaur race! Request for comments!

[vej]

I'm not sure what the goal is here. I see a listing of serious and severe limitations and disadvantages.

An enchantment magic save bonus (and magic can't put you to sleep<eyeroll>), an extra Feat which, as noted, are an optional subsystem and should not be used as built-in racial traits, and talking to (which is really just "talking AT") beasts and plants(?)...but, even that, is limited/disadvantaged because they can't be understood [whether or not they're] speaking back...oh yeah, and you get Athletics, which I guess is to be viewed as a benefit (a "bonus" skill).

On the other hand, we have a permanent AC penalty?! On top of that, only HALF AC bonus from any armor worn. Always disadvantaged Stealth and Acrobatics. A bizarre docked swim speed. Can't climb normally or cross surfaces/structures that can't sustain their substantial weight -which, while making sense, is still a substantial limitation/restriction for adventuring/exploring that can't be ignored.

What is really the goal here?

<eyeroll> Did you know elves have Fey Ancestry? And it's not half AC from armor worn. Read the armor description for barding -- and my trait again.

 

[gyor]

Weird note about Centaurs is that the Centaurs of Thay are more evil then other Centaurs elsewhere in FR, because the Thayan Centaurs serve the Red Wizards as slave overseerers.

 

[vej]

Weird note about Centaurs is that the Centaurs of Thay are more evil then other Centaurs elsewhere in FR, because the Thayan Centaurs serve the Red Wizards as slave overseerers.

Very interesting! In a session 0 one-shot I'm running next week, I have two Chondathan human PCs meet the centaur PC in the Nunwood adjacent to the Chondath port city-state of Hlath (the campaign starts in Chondath, then goes to Chondalwood). One of the humans is an Eldritch Knight, and I discovered that Hlath is an "enclave" of the Red Wizards, whatever that means since there are quite a few. We're saying he learned his Eldritch Knight arcane abilities by stealing books from the Red Wizards' library there, but maybe we can say the centaur in the nearby woods was also trying to F up the Centaurs of Thay who lived there since "evil centaurs are rare and are usually the sworn enemies of the rest of their kind". That phrase I got almost verbatim from firbolg but I thought it matched my mental image of centaurs well.

Thanks for the lore tip! This is one of the great things about designing a campaign in the Forgotten Realms -- sometimes there're some really creative tidbits that you can take and run with.

 

[steeldragons]

<eyeroll> Did you know elves have Fey Ancestry? And it's not half AC from armor worn. Read the armor description for barding -- and my trait again.

The eyeroll wasn't at you. It's at the silliness of that addendum to "fey" ancestry. Yes. I know the elves have it. Gnomes too, or at least forest gnomes, don't they? I don't know really think it's a necessity for a centaur trait. OR, more to the point, I have no qualms with keeping it...but it can't be the only useful ability they have.

The addition of a hooves/kicking attack is a must and step in the right direction. I wouldn't object, even, to giving them some kind of Charging attack bonus (not the "feat" per se, its own individual feature. That also, then, gets you out of having to give proficiencies for everything for a Feat that won't necessarily be in the game).

My concern is the restrictions/limitations on the race/equine form -as I noted, much of it justified and necessary...things that break immersion, e.g. No centaurs can't just climb a rope- far outweigh the race's benefits.

That's not a great way to design a race...even if a lot of it does make common sense and/or "realness."

 

[77IM]

I fully realize that this feat selection is going to be the most controversial part of this race, but I still feel like it's a great idea. Yes, only the human variant gets bonus feats, but what's to say there couldn't be a homebrew tiefling variant that got a bonus feat for some reasonable tradeoff? Feats IMO are in fact an option for races in general, if they're balanced. The feat is also limited to small list of them, so it's not even as beneficial as the human variant, making it a bit less of a balancing concern.

I think the feat helps the player get more excited about creating a bestial race like this since the the player can really solidify the character's raw bestial power through this special ability. For example, an archer centaur Fighter with Sharpshooter would really live up to the legendary marksmanship abilities of centaur, or a Barbarian centaur with Polearm Master, raging as they closed the distance, would be absolutely terrifying. My Druid player is actually going to pick Tough, so his centaur is going to have a huge sack of HP, which I think is also quite appropriate for a centaur of nature: it knows the magic, but this druid is built like a tank.

If this is for your homebrew race, that's all fine. My comments are all from the perspective of what would make a good general-purpose race for use at most tables. Bonus feats for races are not the approach 5E took because it's a little too complex and puts a little too much power into the race selection.

Balance-wise, you've chosen some of the very best feats. I translate "player gets more excited" as "we all know this is slightly overpowered." Toughness feat is +2 HP per level on top of the racial Constitution bonus; the centaur druid will basically have as many hit points as a mountain dwarf barbarian.

Granted, the mountain dwarf is getting a ton of armor proficiencies, which would cost several feats on its own, and as you point out the variant human gets a bonus feat. So I think you're still in the neighborhood of "balanced" when considering the centaur's myriad drawbacks. And I'd still advocate removing the AC penalty, as the other penalties for size and shape are already bad.

I'm not familiar with the "normal squeezing rules" you're referring to, but if I don't know about it, I suspect other DMs and players might not know about it either. Even if there is slight redundancy with RAW, I think saying something about this challenge is expected of a centaur race description and it very well may be the case that DMs simply don't let centaurs through normal doors, justifiably so (and therefore could use this trait in their justification). Imagine trying to navigate a large building with normal doors to every room -- if the 9' Large centaur can just pass through them all without issue, it would seem a little broken. The centaur should think carefully about each door he/she goes through, and should expect an innkeeper to have a major "WTF?!" reaction.

PHB p.192. These are not obscure, secret rules buried in an appendix of the DMG.

That said, I think you are right that a "reminder" about common centaur scenarios is a good idea. I'd just advise that you make sure the rules you mention here line up with the official general-case rule.

You might want to mention the doorway problem in the entry for Large size. Most racial write-ups don't say much in their "Size" entry because there isn't much to say. But it seems like there is a lot for centaurs.

Normal rules for "centaur riding"? I do think it should be explained, and it's important to limit it to Medium or smaller. About the "embarrassment" details: it's almost cliché that centaurs do not like to be ridden. They shouldn't have the limitation removed, but it should always be roleplayed at least once: "You want to ride me?? I AM NOT YOUR HORSE!!" This is another instance where I want the race description to help explain what should be expected of a centaur.

PHB p.198.

As with the above, I think it's fine to remind people about the rules for common scenarios, as long as it follows the general rules. However since there's no actual mechanical impact here it might be better to put this in the flavor-text than the class traits.

I should also add that the MM centaurs are "monstrosities," not "fey". This is controversial, especially since official descriptions of the Feywild say that centaurs live there. It's a minor quibble but I think this reclassification should be made in worlds that feature centaurs and the Feywild prominently.

This reasoning makes sense to me.

I also find it weird that creatures like centaurs, harpies, doppelgängers and medusas are "monstrosities" but merfolk, thri-kreen, kuo-toa and lycanthropes are "humanoid" while off to the side we've got satyrs and dryads and pixies hanging out on the material plane being "fey." I guess I understand why they made it this way, but it seems confusing sometimes.



Another size-problem I just remembered: food and water consumption. It's probably worth mentioning that centaurs eat a lot more. And another size benefit: you can carry a lot more. Like a LOT more. I'd say both multipliers should be about 4x as much as a humanoid. Note that barding only weighs 2x regular armor, and the centaur's weapons are medium-sized, so the centaur PC should still have a lot of carrying capacity left over.

Also I think the listed weight slightly too much. Each doubling of creature size should increase weight by 8x. Based on human weight (114-270 lbs., by the book), this should put centaurs in the range of 900-2150 lbs. Googling "how much does a horse weigh" gives a range of 840-2200, which is pretty close to that. Now a centaur replaces the horse's head and neck (which is not very light) with a human upper torso. Let's call it half the weight of a human (57-135 lbs.) which gives us a final total of 897-2335 lbs. when added to Google's numbers. Rounding, I'd say 900-2300 lbs. for centaurs, which is significantly less than your initial specification.

 

[vej]

If this is for your homebrew race, that's all fine. My comments are all from the perspective of what would make a good general-purpose race for use at most tables. Bonus feats for races are not the approach 5E took because it's a little too complex and puts a little too much power into the race selection.

Balance-wise, you've chosen some of the very best feats. I translate "player gets more excited" as "we all know this is slightly overpowered." Toughness feat is +2 HP per level on top of the racial Constitution bonus; the centaur druid will basically have as many hit points as a mountain dwarf barbarian.

Granted, the mountain dwarf is getting a ton of armor proficiencies, which would cost several feats on its own, and as you point out the variant human gets a bonus feat. So I think you're still in the neighborhood of "balanced" when considering the centaur's myriad drawbacks. And I'd still advocate removing the AC penalty, as the other penalties for size and shape are already bad.



PHB p.192. These are not obscure, secret rules buried in an appendix of the DMG.

That said, I think you are right that a "reminder" about common centaur scenarios is a good idea. I'd just advise that you make sure the rules you mention here line up with the official general-case rule.

You might want to mention the doorway problem in the entry for Large size. Most racial write-ups don't say much in their "Size" entry because there isn't much to say. But it seems like there is a lot for centaurs.


PHB p.198.

As with the above, I think it's fine to remind people about the rules for common scenarios, as long as it follows the general rules. However since there's no actual mechanical impact here it might be better to put this in the flavor-text than the class traits.


This reasoning makes sense to me.

I also find it weird that creatures like centaurs, harpies, doppelgängers and medusas are "monstrosities" but merfolk, thri-kreen, kuo-toa and lycanthropes are "humanoid" while off to the side we've got satyrs and dryads and pixies hanging out on the material plane being "fey." I guess I understand why they made it this way, but it seems confusing sometimes.



Another size-problem I just remembered: food and water consumption. It's probably worth mentioning that centaurs eat a lot more. And another size benefit: you can carry a lot more. Like a LOT more. I'd say both multipliers should be about 4x as much as a humanoid. Note that barding only weighs 2x regular armor, and the centaur's weapons are medium-sized, so the centaur PC should still have a lot of carrying capacity left over.

Also I think the listed weight slightly too much. Each doubling of creature size should increase weight by 8x. Based on human weight (114-270 lbs., by the book), this should put centaurs in the range of 900-2150 lbs. Googling "how much does a horse weigh" gives a range of 840-2200, which is pretty close to that. Now a centaur replaces the horse's head and neck (which is not very light) with a human upper torso. Let's call it half the weight of a human (57-135 lbs.) which gives us a final total of 897-2335 lbs. when added to Google's numbers. Rounding, I'd say 900-2300 lbs. for centaurs, which is significantly less than your initial specification.

Thanks again for your insightful comments!

Here are some changes I'll be making:

• Remove AC penalty entirely
• Add Darkvision
• Update Centaur Weapon Training to mention medium-sized weapons
• Remove "Conspicuousness" entirely
• Add Magic Initiate feat option, but limit it to Druid-only
• Remove swimming limitations and move most of Equine Limitations to header text
• Update the armor formula to mention magical bonuses are added to the end
• Add a hoof strike option
• Add Nature and Survival proficiencies

This list isn't final yet, so I'm still open to any suggestions. I'll post a full edited version of the new race description here soon.

The normal squeezing rules you found are very interesting, and I was surprised that the "Mounted Combat" section of the PHB does seem to indicate a centaur would be a perfect candidate for a mount. Thanks for pointing that out! About the food consumption, your intuition was correct -- DMG p111 actually already covers this. It says Large creatures must consume 4 pounds of food and 4 gallons of water per day.

About the centaur weight, I did similar googling as you. Horses vary quite a bit in size and weight. Centaurs would also vary a lot, but their bell curve IMO should be skewed more toward the larger sizes of horse, as I indicated in the header text about their bodies being like "powerful" horses. Their horse-like forms aren't what you might expect to see everday in a city -- even for horse standards they're big, powerful creatures. The largest horse in the world is 2,600 pounds, so that's how I came up with the upper limit. The lower limit is about 70% of that. It's not uncommon for larger breeds of horses to weigh 1,800 pounds.

 

[vej]

Here is the latest version. D&D Beyond said that the homebrew race couldn't be published because of copyright reason -- apparently just mentioning a feat that was published in a copyrighted work violates their policies. I may actually use the race variant option instead of feats to create a few archetypes instead based on things like toughness, polearm mastery and archery. It's ridiculous that that might more acceptable for copyright reasons but I shan't question it.

This is not yet the final version. The race now feels like it may be a little too strong, but I haven't written the section in the header text yet that helps players understand some of the limiting official rules for a character like this. I'm still trying to think of perhaps one more fair downside. I haven't added in the hoof strike yet because that feels like it would be even more unbalanced.

---

Centaur

Descended from the fey inhabitants of the Feywild, centaurs are large, fearsome creatures with the lower-body of a powerful horse and a humanoid upper-body and mind. They are almost entirely nomadic, traveling great distances in a season. Within their communities they speak a dialect of Sylvan, but they have learned Common and Elvish through their love of bardic ballads and epic poetry in those languages collected throughout their herds' far-flung journeys across the face of Faerûn.

Centaurs are generally neutral good, and may tolerate peaceful interactions with other non-evil folk, but a threatened herd is a dangerous force of nature: keen with bows, spears, druidic magic, and an ability to easily outrun most other creatures, an armored centaur herd can rival the militaries of man.

For a centaur, leaving a herd means abandoning the security of one's clan and the centaur way of life. Such a sacrifice would be one the most difficult decisions a centaur could make. Amongst bipedal races, centaurs can sometimes be treated as non-persons, something very insulting to the innate dignity every centaur easily finds in their strong connection with nature.

Centaur Traits

Your centaur character has the following racial traits.

Centaur Feat

You gain one feat of your choice from the following options: Athlete, Charger, Durable, Polearm Master, Sharpshooter, Tough, or Magic Initiate (Druid-only).

Clumsy Athletes

Because of their horse-like features, centaurs are not as nimble as a bipedal race, but they have the muscular conditioning to rival giant-kin. You have disadvantage on all Acrobatics checks but you are proficient in the Athletics skill.

Equine Limitations

Centaurs cannot climb anything a horse could not such as a ladder, rope, or brick wall. Your swim speed is 15 feet.

Ability Score Increase

Your Constitution score increases by 2 and your Strength score increases by 2.

Age

As creatures related to the fey, centaurs have long lifespans. A centaur reaches adulthood around 30, and the oldest of them can live for 500 years.

Alignment

As people who follow the rhythm of nature and see themselves as its caretakers, centaurs are typically neutral good. Evil centaurs are rare and are usually the sworn enemies of the rest of their kind.

Armor Compatibility

Centaurs can wear armor designed for a horse with modification performed by a blacksmith. Any starting equipment has already had such modifications made or was initially designed for centaurs by the cultural craftsmen of a herd.

Centaurs cannot, however, wear lower-body armor designed for bipedal races. To calculate AC from armor, halve the AC for worn human-compatible armor and add it to the halved AC for worn horse-compatible armor (don't round until after adding the numbers together, then round down). Magical AC bonuses should only be added to the final number. Magical human-compatible lower body armor (such as boots) cannot resize to fit a centaur.

Donning armor without help takes 10 minutes and doffing takes 5 minutes. With help, normal times for the armor type apply.

Centaur Weapon Training

You are proficient with the shortbow, longbow, spear, glaive, lance, pike, and halberd. These weapons cannot be larger than Medium size.

Darkvision

Accustomed to twilit forests and the night sky, you have superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can’t discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.

Fey Ancestry

You have advantage on saving throws against being charmed, and magic can’t put you to sleep.

Languages

You can speak, read, and write Common, Sylvan, and Elvish.

Natural Survivalist

Centaurs are instinctively most adapted to the wild. You gain proficiency in the Survival, Nature and Perception skills.

Size

Centaurs are between 7 and 9 feet tall and weigh between 1,800 and 2,600 pounds. Your size is Large.

Speech of Beast and Leaf

You have the ability to communicate in a limited manner with beasts and plants. They can understand the meaning of your words, though you have no special ability to understand them in return. You have advantage on all Charisma checks you make to influence them.

Speed

Your base walking speed is 50 feet. When traveling long distances in a day, you can move at the same speed as a humanoid on horseback, unless you are moving stealthily, in which case the standard long distance humanoid stealth movement speed applies.

 

[77IM]

Looks pretty good!

Except for the part where you snuck in a whopping THREE extra skill proficiencies, for a total of four. That's pretty broken. No other race gets that. Perception is one of the most-rolled skills in the game, and the majority of centaurs should be getting Survival from their background already. If you really want this, I'd just make Skilled one of the feats you can select.

Also, the way you phrased "swimming speed" is probably not what you meant. Creatures with a swimming speed get certain benefits in underwater combat. I'd probably say something like, "When you swim, each foot of movement costs 2 extra feet, (instead of the normal 1 extra foot)." This fits in better with how normal swimming movement is calculated (PHB p.182).

That is totally weird about the copyright thing on D&D Beyond. I thought supplements there were not required to be OGL and were allowed to use the full PHB as a source. Did they say specifically what the problem was?

 

[jasper]

Still over rated.
Clumsy Atheletes. Drop the athletics skill. Maybe replace with advantage on athletics checks.
Equine Limitations is still off. Just do disadvantage on those climb checks and swim checks. Why is swim 15 when you move 50. All other pcs don’t have this.
Armor Compatibility. You have to track 2 sets of armor. Just say armor cost 3x list price in phb. And add may not be available without a wait time in certain areas.
Gee another race with darkvision. Harumph.
Language, change to common and either sylvan or elf.
Natural Survivalist too good. Change to just Nature.

 

[steeldragons]

Glad some of the limitations are being put aside. I think part of the difficulty is your formatting/organization. It doesn't read like a 5e race.

Look at the PHB and put together your abilities and traits in a manner fitting to them...

BASE RACE
Fluffy Thing I: description description, but no mechanical elements.
Fluffy Thing II: description description, no mechanical elements.

Ability Increase:
Age:
Alignment:
Size:
Speed:
Senses [vision]:
Some Trait for all subraces:
Languages:
Subrace choices:

SUBRACES
Secondary Ability Increase
1-3 Further Traits

If not using Subraces (a la Half-Elves, Dragonborn, etc...)
Then as above Ability Increase-through-Senses/Vision...then,
Trait 1
Trait 2
[possibly] Trait 3
Languages

You need to be able to fit everything you want into those slots...if that means doubling some things up under an umbrella trait, that's fine. But it needs some tightening/structure.

My suggestions would be (mostly using what you've already done/clearly want included) something like...

Centaur
Ability Increase: +2 to Str., +1 to Con.
Age: As creatures related to the fey, centaurs have long lifespans. A centaur reaches adulthood around 30, and the oldest of them can live for 500 years.
Alignment: As people who follow the rhythm of nature and see themselves as its caretakers, centaurs are typically neutral good. Evil centaurs are rare and are usually the sworn enemies of the rest of their kind.
Size: Centaurs are between 7 and 9 feet tall and weigh between 1,800 and 2,600 pounds. Your size is Large. As a large creature, "normal" (made for Medium)-sized Two-handed Weapons count as Versatile in your hands.
Speed: Your base speed is 50'. When traveling long distances in a day, you can move at the same speed as a humanoid on horseback, unless you are moving stealthily, in which case the standard long distance humanoid stealth movement speed applies.
Senses [vision]: Lowlight Vision 60'.

Equine Form: Your special physique gives you the following limitations and benefits:

• Conspicuous: Due to general size and mass (of a powerful four-legged horse body), you have disadvantage to all Dexterity (Acrobatics) and Climbing checks. You are also disadvantaged on Dexterity (Stealth) or Hide rolls in any surroundings other than woodlands or dense vegetation (such as a thickets or fields of tall crops).
• Charger: You deal double damage on a successful melee weapon attack if you have a minimum of 30' of run-up distance. Your Kicking attack does not receive this bonus (you can not charge and kick in the same attack).
• Kicking: As a bonus action, you can make a kicking attack to a target directly (5') in front of you or directly (5') behind you. Melee Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 11 (2d6 + 4) bludgeoning damage.

Sylvan Nobility: You gain proficiency and have advantage with Intelligence (Nature) rolls. Also, you can speak with normal forest mammals and birds. You have advantage to any Charisma (Persuasion) interactions with them.

Centaur Weapon Training: You are proficient with bows (short/long) and spears.

Languages: Sylvan, Elfish, Common.