There is a Sage Advice interview on the AD&D YouTube channel with Greg Tito and Jeremy Crawford where he explains the intent and interaction of Devils Sight with dim light and darkness. Unfortunately, a quick Google search does not give me the video. I'll check later today and post a link.
Warlock's Devil's Sight questions
- Thread starter CTurbo
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Well, if you care about sage advice there's https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/11/18/devils-sight-vision/
Which admittedly doesn't really answer the question but I would interpret it as: if you have any light source (even one providing dim light) then you don't have Devil's Sight.
Thinking it over, that might be how I rule in the future. So your buddy has a torch? No Devil's Sight. You can see just as far, and just as well as, your compatriot (of the same race). You have to be in darkness to see in darkness. Of course that still violates my "no silly rules" policy in some cases but at least it's better than seeing OK for 20 ft, dim for 20 ft and then fine for the rest of the range.
lonelynoose
First Post
Jeremy Crawford
Devil's Sight does not require you to be standing in darkness for the invocation to work. #DnD
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/957031919031472128
Devil's Sight does not require you to be standing in darkness for the invocation to work. #DnD
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/957031919031472128
Which is why I don't (usually) pay too much to the tweets. This seems to contradict my quote from before ... and doesn't really shed much light on the topic.
As always when I'm DMing I'll make a ruling that's the most logically consistent and not get too caught up in the strict reading of the rules and only the rules and when I'm playing let my DM do the same.
Satyrn
First Post
I agree with you that Devil's sight doesn't make sense from a logical point of view ... but magic isn't necessarily logical.
Some recent Sage Advice from Jeremy Crawford the game designed regarding Devil's Sight
https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/957031642979221504
"If you have Devil's Sight, darkness within 120 feet of you effectively isn't there. For purposes of sight, you can treat that area as if it's brightly lit"
"Devil's Sight has no interaction with dim light. It alters only how you experience darkness."
What this means for Devil's Sight is the following:
1) If it is completely dark all around you - you see normally as if brightly lit.
2) If it is completely lit all around you (e.g. daytime) you see normally as if brightly lit.
3) If you are in a large area that is dimly lit, Devil's Sight does nothing. If you have darkvision then the dimly lit area is perceived as brightly lit. If you don't have darkvision you can't see very well.
4) If you are carrying a torch that sheds bright light in a 20' radius and dim light out to a 40' radius then it gets even more interesting. Within 20' you see normally as if well lit, between 20' and 40' the region is dimly lit so if you have darkvision you see it as brightly lit and if you don't it is dimly lit and you have disadvantage on perception checks. However, from 40' to 120', the area is in darkness and Devil's Sight allows you to see that area as brightly lit again.
Based on the designer comments that seems to be how it is intended to work. Personally, I don't really like that approach but if going by the stated interpretation and RAW, Devil's Sight only affects the character's ability to see in darkness (either normal or magical).
Some recent Sage Advice from Jeremy Crawford the game designed regarding Devil's Sight
https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/957031642979221504
"If you have Devil's Sight, darkness within 120 feet of you effectively isn't there. For purposes of sight, you can treat that area as if it's brightly lit"
"Devil's Sight has no interaction with dim light. It alters only how you experience darkness."
What this means for Devil's Sight is the following:
1) If it is completely dark all around you - you see normally as if brightly lit.
2) If it is completely lit all around you (e.g. daytime) you see normally as if brightly lit.
3) If you are in a large area that is dimly lit, Devil's Sight does nothing. If you have darkvision then the dimly lit area is perceived as brightly lit. If you don't have darkvision you can't see very well.
4) If you are carrying a torch that sheds bright light in a 20' radius and dim light out to a 40' radius then it gets even more interesting. Within 20' you see normally as if well lit, between 20' and 40' the region is dimly lit so if you have darkvision you see it as brightly lit and if you don't it is dimly lit and you have disadvantage on perception checks. However, from 40' to 120', the area is in darkness and Devil's Sight allows you to see that area as brightly lit again.
Based on the designer comments that seems to be how it is intended to work. Personally, I don't really like that approach but if going by the stated interpretation and RAW, Devil's Sight only affects the character's ability to see in darkness (either normal or magical).
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MechaTarrasque
Hero
Maybe it is a holdover. In the old days, pretty much every demon could cast darkness (and telekinesis), but none of them could cast dim light. So devils built a bunch of body mods to counter darkness but didn't need anything for dim light. After a couple of edition changes, demons couldn't do that anymore, and the devils had the mods taking up shelf space. Some devil had the bright idea of "we could sell these to mortals", and the rest was history.
I think you have the intent, from my understanding of the intent. If there is dim light, devils sight does not grant any additional ability to see through it. If there is darkness beyond the dim light of a torch or other light source, and the character doesn't have a way to see through the dim light with any greater clarity, then the area of darkness would appear as dim. If the area of dim light could be seen through with clarity then the area of darkness beyond is seen with that same clarity.
As written the feature does nothing more and nothing less. I feel this means the DM has to get inside the head of Crawford to understand what more or less means with respect to the text in the book.
Maybe think of devils sight as the ability to perceive anything in darkness that would be in your field of view. It is NOT sight but rather a magical ability to perceive perfectly (as if it was well lit) any area of darkness within 120’.
So it doesn’t matter whether you are in a lit area. It doesn’t matter if the dark region is on the other side of a dimly lit region. If it is within 120’ and dark you can perceive what is there as if it was well lit.
devils sight does not rely on photons
So it doesn’t matter whether you are in a lit area. It doesn’t matter if the dark region is on the other side of a dimly lit region. If it is within 120’ and dark you can perceive what is there as if it was well lit.
devils sight does not rely on photons
Since cooperjer, Oofta and Keravath already gave the long answer (including Crawford's reply to me [vikke064] on Twitter) I think the short answer is:
Devil's sight does not negate the need for darkvision unless no light is available at all. This is weird and makes no sense, but it is intentional.
Devil's sight does not negate the need for darkvision unless no light is available at all. This is weird and makes no sense, but it is intentional.
