5e Immortal Rules

[dave2008]

Hello All:
Many moons ago I posted some ramblings for creating epic characters in 5e: 5e Epic Character Updates

Well I am going to spend time this summer adding some meat to the bones I previously excavated. However, one of the questions I am running into is: How much should "epic" rules diverge from the standard rules?

I've been looking over my D&D "Player's Guide to Immortals" and "DM's Guide to Immortals." There are lot of interesting ideas in there, but it really diverges from the BECM version of D&D quite a bit. I like the idea that epic rules should change the game in some way, it should feel different; but, I am loathe to go whole hog and completely change the game. To be clear, I am looking to make rules for characters to become demigods / gods - not simply higher level (no 21-30 levels). So what do think? Should I:

1) Start fresh! Out with the old, and in with the new - let the Immortals Guides point you to the path of salvation.

2) Keep as much as possible, but a few tweaks to make the game feel different - we're playing gods after all!

3) Hogwash - just add 10 more levels!

UPDATE: Here is my first attempt at an outline / Table of Contents. This will obviously change as I get to writing things, but I thought I would throw it out there to get some thoughts before I jump in.

UPDATE 2: I have added a DM's Guide ToC / Outline as well.

Immortal Player's Guider ToC / Outline:


Immortal DM's Guider ToC / Outline:

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Some ideas:
-At higher level, creatures get to have Legendary Actions, Legendary Saves, Lair Actions and Regional effects. I think you could tailor some ''Epic Destiny'' levels where the players choose a path and receive specific version of the above traits.

- The path to immortality could get the casters to create custom spells, warrior to create weapon/armor of legacies, cleric to create their own ''Domain'' spells list to add to their list.

- The players are too strong for mere domain management, they need basic rules to create their own demi-plane.

-

 

[cbwjm]

Allow stats to go up to 30. Allow level to increase to 30 to allow for increased proficiency modifiers as per monsters with a CR of 21+.

No need for classes to be expanded beyond 20. Players can pick up another class to gain those extra 10 levels or perhaps an immortal class is added which grants a domain at level 1 that the new immortal is able to cast spells from.

Another option is rather than increasing in level, expand on the boons in the DMG. Immortality is the first gained when you become immortal and others are gained as you earn experience as a young immortal. Some boons could even be to add levels of spellcasting with an increase of your overall level.

 

[dave2008]

Some ideas:
-At higher level, creatures get to have Legendary Actions, Legendary Saves, Lair Actions and Regional effects. I think you could tailor some ''Epic Destiny'' levels where the players choose a path and receive specific version of the above traits.

- The path to immortality could get the casters to create custom spells, warrior to create weapon/armor of legacies, cleric to create their own ''Domain'' spells list to add to their list.

- The players are too strong for mere domain management, they need basic rules to create their own demi-plane.

-

Thank you for the input, I will take your ideas into consideration.

So, trying to read between the lines: are you suggesting I should go with some version of #2? A light touch to the general rules as already presented?

 

[dave2008]

Allow stats to go up to 30. Allow level to increase to 30 to allow for increased proficiency modifiers as per monsters with a CR of 21+.

No need for classes to be expanded beyond 20. Players can pick up another class to gain those extra 10 levels or perhaps an immortal class is added which grants a domain at level 1 that the new immortal is able to cast spells from.

That would essentially be option #3

Another option is rather than increasing in level, expand on the boons in the DMG. Immortality is the first gained when you become immortal and others are gained as you earn experience as a young immortal. Some boons could even be to add levels of spellcasting with an increase of your overall level.

This is a version of #2, with a very light touch. It is also essentially what I already have in the thread linked to in the OP. Which would make things a lot easier if that is the way I end up going!

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Thank you for the input, I will take your ideas into consideration.

So, trying to read between the lines: are you suggesting I should go with some version of #2? A light touch to the general rules as already presented?

I never read the previous rules for epic characters so I cannot say. But yeah, I think you should use part of the rules for higher level creatures and see what make them epic in our eyes beyond moar HP and damage.

 

[dave2008]

I never read the previous rules for epic characters so I cannot say. But yeah, I think you should use part of the rules for higher level creatures and see what make them epic in our eyes beyond moar HP and damage.

#2 is a light touch to the existing non-epic rules. I was not referencing a previous set of epic rules.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

I think the point is, what feel do you want? Should players feel their characters are (just) more powerful, or should they feel different.

Maybe show us a little more of what you've got so far, to make commenting easier and more relevant?

Oh, and you should check out this: https://gurbintrollgames.wordpress.com/immortals-companion/

 

[dave2008]

I think the point is, what feel do you want? Should players feel their characters are (just) more powerful, or should they feel different.

I want them to feel different, I consider the normal 1-20 level progress the domain of mortals and I want these characters to become gods. To me, that means they should play somewhat differently. I am just not sure how much.

Maybe show us a little more of what you've got so far, to make commenting easier and more relevant?

Well I linked to what I have in the OP. Just a rough start really. I was hoping to get some more input on what other people are interested in before I dive into it again. However, I do have many more ideas than what I have currently posted, so maybe I should just make what appeals to me and then see what people link.

Oh, and you should check out this: https://gurbintrollgames.wordpress.com/immortals-companion/

I picked that up over a year ago (on your recommendation), but I haven't gone through it in detail yet. It appears to be a pretty faithful conversion of the BECMI Guides to Immortals that I reference in the OP. I don't know if I want to go that far, but I will definitely be mining it for ideas. Thank you again for the suggestion.

 

[CapnZapp]

By "keep as much as possible", do you mean OD&D Immortals or 5E progression?

And why Immortals? (Not trying to tank those rules. Trying to get you to put your reasons in print)