Potent Cantrip: To "fix" or not to fix?

[Tony Vargas]

You could house rule Potent Cantrip so that it works similar to Great Weapon Style for fighters - have it allow you to re-roll 1's and 2's (once) on the damage roll.

But, wizards aren't like fighters - they actually can have nice things!

Seriously, though, it seems a fine solution...

[size=-2]

Allowing you to re-roll any number of damage dice yields a 20-23% damage bonus*

*Exact benefit depends on die size; larger dice benefit slightly more from rerolls

.[/size] Well, from a single re-eroll. If you simply re-eroll until you get a non-1 result the increase is simple: +0.5 damage/die. If you only get one re-roll it's less, even less the smaller the die, but it's a pretty minor benefit compared to DoaSS/DoaM.

 

[jaelis]

You could house rule Potent Cantrip so that it works similar to Great Weapon Style for fighters - have it allow you to re-roll 1's and 2's (once) on the damage roll.

Probably want to rewrite Elemental Adept then. Not that that’s a bad idea in the first place.

 

[Staffan]

Probably want to rewrite Elemental Adept then. Not that that’s a bad idea in the first place.

My guess is that Elemental Adept's primary audience is Draconic sorcerers and other casters who rely greatly on one particular energy type for damage. Draconic sorcerers are incentivized to focus strongly on one damage type since they get to add Charisma modifier to damage, but that can really hurt them if they fight something with resistance. So, Elemental Adept lets them get around that (but not immunity), and offers a minor benefit for the situations where opponents don't have resistance.

It's not a feat you build your character around, like Great Weapon Mastery or Sharpshooter, but rather a feat that shores up a weakness that comes from another part of the system.

 

[Saeviomagy]

While I appreciate the suggestions for fixes, don't forget that I specifically asked for feedback from people who've had actual experience playing evokers, with or without house-ruling Potent Cantrip, and what your conclusions are regarding the effectiveness of the rule (either as written, or modified). Hypothetical solutions are all well and good, but only playtesting can tell whether they actually achieve the desired result.

Wyvern

My experience is that my player's evoker has literally never used the benefit of it, because getting a tiny amount of damage on a miss is nowhere near as good as using a cantrip that does something worthwhile on a hit.

 

[Jonathon Robinson]

Well, from a single re-eroll. If you simply re-eroll until you get a non-1 result the increase is simple: +0.5 damage/die. If you only get one re-roll it's less, even less the smaller the die, but it's a pretty minor benefit compared to DoaSS/DoaM.

Assuming 1's and 2's are re-rolled once:

1d4 => 2.5 average roll => (2.5+2.5+3+4)/4 = 3 (+0.5)
1d6 => 3.5 average roll => (3.5+3.5+3+4+5+6)/6 = 4.17 (+0.67)
1d8 => 5.25 (+0.75)
1d10 => 6.3 (+0.8)
1d12 => 7.33 (+0.83)

 

[guachi]

It's been my default assumption when estimating damage: 70% to hit, 70% target fails its save. After a bit of number-crunching, however, I may have to rethink it. It looks like something more in the 60-65% range is more appropriate.

I settled upon 65% hit rate for my calculations. I think it involved actual math but at this point I don't even know. So I'll pretend I have justification. Fighters have a potential slight boost at levels six and seven because they get their second ASI sooner so can hit 20 at level six in a standard array/point buy environment.

Save percentage I don't know about. I generally assume that Wisdom saves are harder than Con or Dex saves for most creatures so I rate Wisdom spells higher for that reason.

 

[ClaytonCross]

I recall when 5e first came out, some people were a bit miffed that the evoker's Potent Cantrip feature applied to only two spells in the PHB (acid splash and poison spray), neither of which is an evocation spell.

Now that the game has been out for nearly four years, I'm wondering whether people still feel that way with the benefit of actual play experience. If you've played an evoker, or seen one played, what are your thoughts? If you played it by-the-book, did you feel that the benefits of Potent Cantrip were underwhelming? And if you (or your DM) house-ruled it, what fix did you apply, and how well do you think it turned out?

Wyvern

Qualifying spell out now.

Wizard: Create Bonfire 1d8(Conjuration), Frostbite 1d6(Evocation), Infestation 1d6(Conjuration), Acid Splash 1d6(Conjuration), Toll the Dead 1d8/1d12 (Necromancy), Poison Spray 1d12(Conjuration), Thunderclap 1d6(Evocation)

Magic initiate X feat options: Word of Radiance 1d6(Evocation), Vicious Mockery 1d4(Enchantment), Sacred Flame 1d8(Evocation), Thunderclap


I feel like with the new spells and considering its not all that bad

Toll the Dead 1d8/1d12 (Necromancy) - Wisdom save - 60ft range. Best damage

Thunderclap 1d6(Evocation) - Constitution save - 5ft AoE around the caster.
(could be 96 damage at level 17+ on a miss if completely surrounded by 8 enemies and you rolled four 6s, not that it would ever happen, average damage for missing 8 enemies is 56 though I don't know that you will ever have more than 3 regularly and that is 16 damage on miss)

Sacred Flame 1d8 (Evocation) - Dexterity save - 60ft range, "target has gains no benefit from cover" works prior to hit so it will still mean you can still target an enemy in full cover prior, Radiant damage stops some regeneration effects -- Acquire through Magic Initiate (Cleric), low DC doesn't matter since you just want to hit them with radiant damage with 100% chance to hit.

 

[Horwath]

Half damage on missed attack is the same as half damage on a save.

Equal in power and gives more options on picking spells.

if on 6th level 5 damage on a miss is overpowered then everything is overpowered.

 

[jaelis]

Qualifying spell out now.

Wizard: Create Bonfire 1d8(Conjuration), Frostbite 1d6(Evocation), Infestation 1d6(Conjuration), Acid Splash 1d6(Conjuration), Toll the Dead 1d8/1d12 (Necromancy), Poison Spray 1d12(Conjuration), Thunderclap 1d6(Evocation)

Magic initiate X feat options: Word of Radiance 1d6(Evocation), Vicious Mockery 1d4(Enchantment), Sacred Flame 1d8(Evocation), Thunderclap


I feel like with the new spells and considering its not all that bad

Toll the Dead 1d8/1d12 (Necromancy) - Wisdom save - 60ft range. Best damage

Thunderclap 1d6(Evocation) - Constitution save - 5ft AoE around the caster.
(could be 96 damage at level 17+ on a miss if completely surrounded by 8 enemies and you rolled four 6s, not that it would ever happen, average damage for missing 8 enemies is 56 though I don't know that you will ever have more than 3 regularly and that is 16 damage on miss)

Sacred Flame 1d8 (Evocation) - Dexterity save - 60ft range, "target has gains no benefit from cover" works prior to hit so it will still mean you can still target an enemy in full cover prior, Radiant damage stops some regeneration effects -- Acquire through Magic Initiate (Cleric), low DC doesn't matter since you just want to hit them with radiant damage with 100% chance to hit.

Frostbite is the best, I think. But still it is more limited than I think it should be.

 

[Caliburn101]

I house-ruled this some time ago.

Evoker's Cantrip

When rolling to hit with an evocation cantrip, you get +2 to hit.

This is then like a fighting style, and seems much more in-keeping with the Evoker as a whole.