Fiddling around with Fifth Ed

[MechaPilot]

If that is how its' going down, then the player is doing it wrong. It should be, "my character doesn't want to adventure, but here is the reason that I have crafted to get him out the door and I'm handing you potential plot hooks for future development." It is collaborative story telling after all.

Ah, the ancient and forever lost land of "should be." Maybe one day we'll get there, and we'll find all the people who can maturely play evil or chaotic characters without being total a-holes to the rest of the party, people who play rogues without the impulse to steal from the rest of the party, and people who admit to and repent of bad behavior when called on it instead of raising the "that's what my character would do" defense.

Look, a lot of people have a rule about no evil characters, because they've been burned in that regard. This is no different. I've dealt with reluctant hero PCs who basically forced me to jump through hoops to re-engage them from one story to the next. No more. If you've had a good experience with players of reluctant hero PCs, then good for you.

Also, it's not a matter of being hard, or requiring effort. I don't mind a challenge, and I'm not afraid to put the work in. But, in my experience dealing with a reluctant hero PC is like having to move 1,000 empty boxes without breaking them down. They're not heavy (i.e. challenging), and it doesn't require an insurmountable amount of effort, but it's just so tedious and unrewarding that I can't help but say "screw it."

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Ah, the ancient and forever lost land of "should be." Maybe one day we'll get there, and we'll find all the people who can maturely play evil or chaotic characters without being total a-holes to the rest of the party, people who play rogues without the impulse to steal from the rest of the party, and people who admit to and repent of bad behavior when called on it instead of raising the "that's what my character would do" defense.

Look, a lot of people have a rule about no evil characters, because they've been burned in that regard. This is no different. I've dealt with reluctant hero PCs who basically forced me to jump through hoops to re-engage them from one story to the next. No more. If you've had a good experience with players of reluctant hero PCs, then good for you.

Also, it's not a matter of being hard, or requiring effort. I don't mind a challenge, and I'm not afraid to put the work in. But, in my experience dealing with a reluctant hero PC is like having to move 1,000 empty boxes without breaking them down. They're not heavy (i.e. challenging), and it doesn't require an insurmountable amount of effort, but it's just so tedious and unrewarding that I can't help but say "screw it."

Hey. I have a solution to both problems at once:
I tell every player that he should male a character that the other people want to adveture with. If you don' t get taken along, you need to make a different character. Maybe I give a second chance if you follow the group and help in the first encounter. After that, I will send him home. Or he might become an npc villain. Same if you get dropped because you betray your own party members. And the same if you let your party members die for no reason.

 

[Oofta]

Hey. I have a solution to both problems at once:
I tell every player that he should male a character that the other people want to adveture with. If you don' t get taken along, you need to make a different character. Maybe I give a second chance if you follow the group and help in the first encounter. After that, I will send him home. Or he might become an npc villain. Same if you get dropped because you betray your own party members. And the same if you let your party members die for no reason.

I may have to steal that. Along with the added clause that the reason they want to adventure with you is because you're PC is a powerful _____. Characters that are annoying and obstinate may be okay in works of fiction, but not at a game table. Being an ass doesn't make you a tremendous role player who wants to play someone "deep".

 

[Salthorae]

Apparently this has touched some nerves for some people. Apparently trying to emulate fiction tropes in a game founded on fiction tropes is a bad idea around here. Sorry for bringing it up.

Thankfully I play in a group that doesn’t require conformity to some weird forced esprit de corps. Good gaming everyone.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Apparently this has touched some nerves for some people. Apparently trying to emulate fiction tropes in a game founded on fiction tropes is a bad idea around here. Sorry for bringing it up.

Thankfully I play in a group that doesn’t require conformity to some weird forced esprit de corps. Good gaming everyone.

You are totally right. I disagree with the poster above. Being powerful is in no way required. And if you can hide your bad intentions feom the group it is ok if we all agree at session zero.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Apparently this has touched some nerves for some people. Apparently trying to emulate fiction tropes in a game founded on fiction tropes is a bad idea around here. Sorry for bringing it up.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to emulate fiction tropes, even in a game like D&D that is founded on old-school wargaming and quixotic Gygaxian eccentricities rather than genre tropes. The game is just ill-suited for /one/ of the tropes you mentioned.

 

[Satyrn]

The game is just ill-suited for /one/ of the tropes you mentioned.

And yet he's said he's managed to do so effectively, and even spent some effort explaining how he did so in a suitable way.

 

[Tony Vargas]

And yet he's said he's managed to do so effectively, and even spent some effort explaining how he did so in a suitable way.

While I'm happy for him, overcoming adversity is not the same as proving adversity never existed.

 

[Ancalagon]

By not leaving the tavern, you fail to prevent the world from shattering, and thus cause the party to suffer death. You might console yourself by saying that it was the Big Bad who did the actual shattering, but you are still ultimately responsible for failing to stop them.

What a peculiar outlook. Are the PCs *always * the Chosen Ones? Is it always the End Times?

 

[Oofta]

What a peculiar outlook. Are the PCs *always * the Chosen Ones? Is it always the End Times?

Well, the original response was related to the PC not stopping a world ending event if you follow it back.

I sometimes have cataclysmic events happening, sometimes it's global but more often it's local. I've run other campaigns that had no overall "heroes must save the day" theme.

But what they all have in common is that during a session 0 (or before) we talk about motivations and why is any PC with the group and why they are adventurers. If you want to play the reluctant hero that's fine, but give me a reason as a DM why your hero would reluctantly spring into action. I don't care what direction my players choose for their PCs, I set up events and scenarios and they can respond as they see fit*.

But just telling me you want to sit in a bar waiting to see what happens? Well, what happens is an incredibly boring RP session as you order drinks and pay for them. Eventually the tavern closes and you go home, assuming you still have a home to go to. The player is just as responsible to commit to being an adventurer as the DM is to provide appropriate adventures.

*Typically what I do when a scenario is ending or about to end is ask the players what they want to pursue next. Follow up that rumor about the corrupt Baron? Buy the treasure map? Something else? So I have time to think about the setting and prep for the next game. Beyond that if they want to ignore the invading orcish armies they can, they may just come home to find their home burnt to the ground.