“Who started it?” Initiative order

[Reynard]

If a PC action clearly gets things moving, I am totally ok with putting that PC first in the initiative and having everyone else roll.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I dunno. The guy who decides to suddenly attack may have an advantage, but he might still get beaten on the draw. (Like in just about any Western...)

In these sorts of situations I could see giving that one character Advantage on the roll. If he gets beaten it means he tried to surprise everybody but they were ready for it, and were faster.

 

[Iry]

That's essentially how I run it.

It is a minor house rule, but works well. Everyone rolls initiative, but the first person to actually ATTACK or otherwise do something really important goes first. After that first round, that person goes at his normal initiative order. This applies to PCs and NPCs evenly.

 

[ad_hoc]

I don't see it as a retcon at all.

Players say what they want to do. The DM then adjudicates what happens and whether they can do it.

This is different than the player deciding what the character does.

It is a mistake to treat combat as static; one character does a thing while everyone stands aroundabd watches, then the next and so on. It is all happening at once, initiative is just a game mechanic to determine whose thing happens slightly before the other's.

Han shot first because he won initiative.

 

[Warbringer]

I do like the sucker punch advantage.

But what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and it makes assassins lethal...

 

[Moorcrys]

You could always give them an flat initiative number plus Dex mod (like 20 + Dex). Enemies could roll for initiative normally modified by Dex (or even Wisdom or Intelligence to notice something is awry if you want to represent hyper-aware or genius level adversaries). That way it’s most likely the player’s character will go first, but there’s the small chance that an enemy reacts by instinct or the dice reveal it was anticipating an action (or was planning something themselves unknown to the character). That keeps the unknown/randomness in the playing of it but still gives the character a very high chance of going first.

 

[AmerginLiath]

If the round system weren’t so abstracted, I’d be fine with the suggested system. However, the initiative system in the round system of D&D doesn’t really tell you who acts first — it tells you whose actions resolves first (hence why older versions had spells or heavier weapons cause delays in initiative count, that action was still announced/done-in-game with the rest of the other actions but it took more time to resolve. Therefore, I can’t say that such a change necessarily works when the resolution or completion of actions isn’t the same as the initation of them.

What I’d consider, if a PC acted to iniated combat in such a manner, is to give that character advantage (or some other bonus) on the initiative check, as the circumstances involved suggest such a use of that rule. That way, the character acting to start a fight has a better chance of going first/early but isn’t disrupting the implicit logic of D&D turn-based system.

 

[Maxperson]

Sometimes a PC initiates combat and then the DM asks for initiative. That player then argues they should go first.

Surprise rounds etc. have been (IMO) inelegantly used in these situations over various editions.

I’m toying with a minor house rule — if somebody unexpectedly starts the fight, they don’t roll initiative. Everybody else does, then the person who started it goes first, with their initiative one point ahead of the first person to react.

Might try that next game session! .

What I do is if the enemy isn't expecting it and the other PCs aren't, either, I give that one PC a surprise round. If the enemy is on guard, but isn't ready to draw their weapons in an instant, I will give the PC in question a circumstance bonus to initiative.

 

[5ekyu]

I dunno. The guy who decides to suddenly attack may have an advantage, but he might still get beaten on the draw. (Like in just about any Western...)

In these sorts of situations I could see giving that one character Advantage on the roll. If he gets beaten it means he tried to surprise everybody but they were ready for it, and were faster.

I think thats a good use of advantage. Quite elegant and fits the basic definitions dead on.

Only nuance i might make is require some degree of deception check with DC based on how difficult it is to hide your intention.

This shifts the "who is likely to succeed at pulling it off and getting the upper hand" to the more sneaky guy, not just the guy quickest to decide to shoot things up.

Brutus "always jumps early" Barbarian is just not as likely to be the guy most likely to get advantage cuz folks dont see his attack coming as "Leo "the smiling, one bringing the drinks" Rougeau.

So, in some cases, perhaps a Deception Check vs DC (varies) to get advantage on the Init order.

 

[Charlaquin]

It sounds to me like you're rolling for initiative too early. The way we've always done it is that you can do whatever you want whenever you want, but once players start stepping on each others' toes trying to do stuff, call for initiative to be rolled. In the case where one player just starts doing combat actions, that player's actions go through (because they said it first) and then initiative is rolled. PCs that weren't paying attention will sometimes be considered surprised the first round.

This is how I handle it. The way most people run it, rolling initiative is like the D&D equivalent of the screen wipe before combat in a turn-based video game. I prefer to avoid such jarring changes in gameplay as much as possible, so I prefer to treat Initiative just like any other ability check. That is to say, I only call for it to be rolled when it’s necessary to resolve an action with an uncertain outcome. When the rogue sneaks up on the unsuspecting goblin (assuming he’s passed whatever checks he needs to pass to do that) and says he tries to kill the goblin by stabbing him in the jugular, there’s no uncertainty in the outcome. No need to roll Initiative, because the goblin has no means of preventing that from happening. When the fighter tries to sucker punch the thug, there’s some uncertainty. The thug might or might not have quick enough reflexes and/or be wise enough to the fighter’s ruse to see it coming. So, we turn to the dice to resolve the uncertainty with an opposed Dexterity check. Heck, I might even ask the fighter to roll Dexterity (Deception) against the thug’s Dexterity (Insight) in a case like this. Of course, since this is a special case where the result of the opposed Dexterity check determines the order of actions (an “Initiative” check, as it’s referred to in the rules), any modifiers that apply to such checks, such as the Alert Feat, would apply here as well.