D&D 5E Anyone else finding character advancement pretty dull?

[delericho]

If that means what I think it means, I'm afraid nothing said on this discussion forum magically appears in people's PHBs so maybe this platform isn't right for you?

It doesn't.

 

[CapnZapp]

It doesn't.

Then don't try to shut down other posters when they want to discuss "the release schedule" here.

In fact, this is the place I've went to for precisely that type of discussion since June 2003.

 

[delericho]

Then don't try to shut down other posters when they want to discuss "the release schedule" here.

In fact, this is the place I've went to for precisely that type of discussion since June 2003.

I didn't. As I said in the post you quoted: if the discussion is fun in its own right, it's worth having.

But don't expect it to actually achieve anything. WotC don't use ENWorld as one of their feedback mechanisms - they have their own polls, surveys, social media and other mechanisms for that. If what you want is to change their behaviour, discussing it on ENWorld won't do that.

 

[Oofta]

With respect, you have dumped about three-quarters of the meaning of the term.

But, you know, shades, subtlety, nuances and distinctions, pfah! Who needs 'em?

I quoted a standard usage definition. Sorry that bothers you. Claim your gognard heritage, own it.

 

[Oofta]

I was a wargamer before I was a roleplayer...and there is nothing wrong with being "factually" correct!

On the other subject, if those who started with 3e and 4e are now considered grognards...we need a new term for those pre-3e gamers (the 2e and before).

Maybe we should call them the Ultra Grognards...or maybe the new guys should be called Neo-Grognards with the original RPG Grognards remaining as such...and the ORIGINAL Wargaming grogs (yes, when D&D came out and even to AD&D, there were those who were grognards even then...mostly the old grumbling Wargaming crowd)...called simply...the Grogs.

Well, starting with 3e or 4e does not make you a grognard. Preferring older editions is one type of grognard.

I think the words you're looking for are more along the lines of the words connected to grognard: #curmudgeon#old timer#old school#nerd#geek#

 

[Parmandur]

A decent point, here.

I think people like myself (and a few others from this thread) just need to accept that D&D just isn't "that" game anymore. It's fairly simple (which is good and bad, mostly bad, but just IMO), provides a simple framework through which one can play through some swords-and-magic adventures. Monster in-game complexity, more detailed character development, more and better options...it's just not there.

And that's on purpose. It's supposed to appeal more to the casual crowd than the hardcore gamer crowd. Someone upthread mentioned board game cafe people and I think that's right. It's the best way to understand how leveling up a character in mere moments is a feature; it's bizarre to me because leveling up is between weekly sessions, not something done in session, but in a different kind of playing atmosphere, I can understand how making/leveling up a character in no time at all is a good feature.

I do find it weird how people like not getting product, but maybe the fear of oversaturation runs that deep. I don't know, myself; I feel a the game is doing well enough that it could take the "risk" of producing a bit more, but what the hell. What do people want to see WotC produce? Every time I see an idea offered, it tends to get shot down. Should they produce nothing? It seems weird.

To the original question, I find it kind of boring. Having said that, leveling up has always been kinda cool, but the fact that there are so few decision-points makes it more bland. Even as regards spells; some are just so clearly superior that it ends up being something of a false choice; most casters have the same base of spells. I know people will say that you might choose spells based on personality quirks of the character or whatever, but playing to your character shouldn't involve choosing a markedly inferior option.

From what I have read, PF2 may be swinging the pendulum too far the other way, but maybe not so far that people who are a bit more "hardcore" gamer might still appreciate it.

The idea that anybody who father's around a table on any sort of regular basis to play a TTRPG is "casual" is...odd. Not liking fiddley bits or system mastery traps isn't a lack of ability or intelligence, merely a preference for elegance.

The ease of leveling when it happens is a definite plus. Makes play smooth and natural.

As to being opposed to a delivery of splat: I bought two books between 3.x and 4E: both PHB. I was interested in other books, but analysis paralysis kicked in, and I ended up buying nothing. Not in 14 years. Now I have bought every single 5E book. And while I like the 4 book schedule this year, I would stop buying if they released too many books. And WotC has explicitly told us that I am not weird in that way: they don't want to drive people away with a wall of books.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Well, starting with 3e or 4e does not make you a grognard. Preferring older editions is one type of grognard.

I think the words you're looking for are more along the lines of the words connected to grognard: #curmudgeon#old timer#old school#nerd#geek#

There's THAC0 Grognards, and then there's diaper grognards.

I'm kidding Really, it would probably be TSR Grogs and WoTC Grogs

 

[Guest 6801328]

The idea that anybody who father's around a table on any sort of regular basis to play a TTRPG is "casual" is...odd. Not liking fiddley bits or system mastery traps isn't a lack of ability or intelligence, merely a preference for elegance.

This is a far more eloquent expression of what I was trying to say.

 

[Eric V]

"Not liking fiddley bits or system mastery traps isn't a lack of ability or intelligence..."

NOWHERE did I write that, or anything like it. That's something YOU brought to the table, not me. I'll thank you not to do that again.

I also did not say "system mastery traps" was a good thing either...I'm starting to suspect you didn't actually read my post.

"Casual" in this sense is used the way a group of friends might get together for a board game; there's no investment required outside of actual table time. Since adjusting your character when leveling up is a matter of moments, this reflects that attitude. No one is saying that's a bad thing; it's one of the ways WotC is succeeding with D&D, and it was one of their stated goals in the first place. Got it?

"... they don't want to drive people away with a wall of books. "

Who the hell asked for a "wall of books?" Seriously, you have inferred all sorts of crap that I never said. What's the matter with you?

If WotC released -6- books one year instead of 4, you'd stop buying? What about 5? What about just buying 4 out of the 6? Yeah, you'd have to do some research and so forth, but people do that for purchases all the time.

 

[Oofta]

"Not liking fiddley bits or system mastery traps isn't a lack of ability or intelligence..."

NOWHERE did I write that, or anything like it. That's something YOU brought to the table, not me. I'll thank you not to do that again.

I also did not say "system mastery traps" was a good thing either...I'm starting to suspect you didn't actually read my post.

"Casual" in this sense is used the way a group of friends might get together for a board game; there's no investment required outside of actual table time. Since adjusting your character when leveling up is a matter of moments, this reflects that attitude. No one is saying that's a bad thing; it's one of the ways WotC is succeeding with D&D, and it was one of their stated goals in the first place. Got it?

"... they don't want to drive people away with a wall of books. "

Who the hell asked for a "wall of books?" Seriously, you have inferred all sorts of crap that I never said. What's the matter with you?

If WotC released -6- books one year instead of 4, you'd stop buying? What about 5? What about just buying 4 out of the 6? Yeah, you'd have to do some research and so forth, but people do that for purchases all the time.

All I can say is that I prefer a slower release of splat books and I don't really care about adventure paths one way or another. In addition, given a choice, I'll pick 5E's simplified advancement every time. In fact I do, every time I play.

Does that make me a "casual" gamer?

Whether you want more "crunch", more releases, more complex options is fine. Just don't expect WOTC to change when what they have is working better than any previous release.