D&D 5E Anyone else finding character advancement pretty dull?

[Eric V]

All I can say is that I prefer a slower release of splat books and I don't really care about adventure paths one way or another. In addition, given a choice, I'll pick 5E's simplified advancement every time. In fact I do, every time I play.

And many are like you, it seems, and so the game is doing well economically. What kind of books do you want to see in this slower release?

Does that make me a "casual" gamer?

Maybe? As I wrote above, the level of commitment or "work" between sessions is lowered (because of the simplified advancement) and so players can just show up and play, same as with board game group. I have a board game group that is casual and I love it.

No one said this is bad, btw. I'm not using the term "filthy casual." I personally prefer a less simplified advancement, but I'm in the minority. Hence, in my first post, my point that D&D is just not "that game" anymore.

Whether you want more "crunch", more releases, more complex options is fine. Just don't expect WOTC to change when what they have is working better than any previous release.

I don't! What the...? Honest to God, read my previous post: I was telling people they needed to realize and accept that D&D isn't that game anymore.

 

[Oofta]

And many are like you, it seems, and so the game is doing well economically. What kind of books do you want to see in this slower release?



Maybe? As I wrote above, the level of commitment or "work" between sessions is lowered (because of the simplified advancement) and so players can just show up and play, same as with board game group. I have a board game group that is casual and I love it.

No one said this is bad, btw. I'm not using the term "filthy casual." I personally prefer a less simplified advancement, but I'm in the minority. Hence, in my first post, my point that D&D is just not "that game" anymore.



I don't! What the...? Honest to God, read my previous post: I was telling people they needed to realize and accept that D&D isn't that game anymore.

I apologize if it seems like I'm lumping you in with the **** group. I'm having a hard time coming up with a name for them that doesn't sound insulting. The handful of people that persistently post that 5E is "broken" or that WOTC is ****ing up because they aren't releasing the game they want. I empathize but it's like complaining that we don't have (real) hoverboards like Back to the Future. Would a flying DeLorean be awesome? Sure. I just don't see a reason to dump on every other thread.

But it can be tough to keep track of everyone.

I simply don't think it's particularly useful to lump people into general groups like "casual" vs "hardcore". Some people are more casual, others spend hours writing stories, painting miniatures, building custom monsters for their group. Some people vacillate between the two depending on life demands.

Anyway, we're arguing semantics now ... I'm not even sure where this was going. Other than I think character in 5E is a decent compromise even if there are some aspects of previous versions that I enjoyed that are no longer there.

 

[Mistwell]

On this forum there is a lot of:

"I want this."

"No, WotC knows better than you and you should not get it."

It is devastating for a positive forum debate climate.

What's the point of asking or needing or wanting anything if apologists that doesn't like it are free to shoot it all down using this argument.

There's no need to discuss ANYTHING in that case. Since WotC are successful and their bottom line defines what's right and wrong, we should apparently just wait obediently for whatever morsels they deign to let us pay money for, and we should be thankful.

It's absurd. It's useless. It's clogging up thread after thread with just waste.

TLDR If you disagree have the guts to say so, instead of hiding behind "It's not good for WotC's coffers" as if that was our concern.

This thing you want concerning forum discussions?

No, WotC knows better than you and you should not get it.

Also, if you put the hyperbole hammer down, stopped making broad claims about how you know what's best for everyone, and simply stated your preferences and were respectful to the views of others who disagree instead of calling them apologists and puppets for WOTC, I suspect you'd get better discussion.

 

[Guest 6801328]

"Not liking fiddley bits or system mastery traps isn't a lack of ability or intelligence..."

NOWHERE did I write that, or anything like it. That's something YOU brought to the table, not me. I'll thank you not to do that again.

I also did not say "system mastery traps" was a good thing either...I'm starting to suspect you didn't actually read my post.

"Casual" in this sense is used the way a group of friends might get together for a board game; there's no investment required outside of actual table time. Since adjusting your character when leveling up is a matter of moments, this reflects that attitude. No one is saying that's a bad thing; it's one of the ways WotC is succeeding with D&D, and it was one of their stated goals in the first place. Got it?

"... they don't want to drive people away with a wall of books. "

Who the hell asked for a "wall of books?" Seriously, you have inferred all sorts of crap that I never said. What's the matter with you?

If WotC released -6- books one year instead of 4, you'd stop buying? What about 5? What about just buying 4 out of the 6? Yeah, you'd have to do some research and so forth, but people do that for purchases all the time.

No, you didn't say "system mastery traps" or anything about a "lack of ability or intelligence" but you DID say "casual" and imply that people opposed to more rules get overwhelmed by complexity. You can try to spin (or "powergamersplain") the language you used, but there was a pretty clear implication that those who prefer more books, more options, more complexity are "real gamers" and those of us who don't are not as serious about our games.

 

[Eric V]

No, that is just you being a hypersensitive douchebag. You may have inferred that, but i did not imply anything of the kind. At all.

I don't believe in the concept of a "real gamer. " I think that is a stupid term, quite frankly.

Stop looking for things that are not there; "casual" and "simple" are not pejoratives on their own, merely descriptors.

 

[Morrus]

No, that is just you being a hypersensitive douchebag.

And this is you taking a week off. If you have to resort to name calling, you've conceded the debate anyway.

 

[Parmandur]

If WotC released -6- books one year instead of 4, you'd stop buying? What about 5? What about just buying 4 out of the 6? Yeah, you'd have to do some research and so forth, but people do that for purchases all the time.

If they release 4 books, I'll apparently buy four; but yes, there is a cutoff point where instead of just buying the four I most want I will simply stop buying. I can totally justify a quarterly purchase, when it us cool like MToF or ToA, say. When it becomes semimonthly, I won't buy every one. When I don't buy every one, I am much less likely to buy a book every quarter. When I don't buy a book every quarter, I am very likely to just throw my hands up and acknowledge that I have all I need at this point and sopt.

Now, this is the important part: what I just described is normal, and WotC has been pretty clear that their research shows that to be how their customers, by and large, think. I don't know where that cut off is for me personally; WotC has said that it is 3-4 books for customers on average.

 

[ad_hoc]

WotC can't just magic up another book either.

If they write more books then the quality of each will be hit.

If they outsource the books or hire more people then the vision of the lead designers will be diluted creating a less cohesive and focused game.

They are writing for people who play every other week. I know there are people out there who have already played characters of every class and subclass, but that just isn't the norm. If you have played that much and are looking for something fresh, it's out there. I'm sure WotC is happy you played that much 5e and will be just fine with you playing other games.

If they release 4 books, I'll apparently buy four; but yes, there is a cutoff point where instead of just buying the four I most want I will simply stop buying.

I have hit that point. We have a backlog of adventures.

I also didn't buy MToF. I already have Volo's and Xanathar's. Having some specialty monsters in Volo's is cool, but I don't see using even more.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Personally I'm at the point where I think a game should be a single book. I'm even done with the 3 core philosophy.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Personally I'm at the point where I think a game should be a single book. I'm even done with the 3 core philosophy.