There is a lot of stuff out for D&D right now, and sales are doing fine (Amazon)

[Parmandur]

Because, once us hoi polloi like it, it is no longer cool or high quality. Luckily there is a very long tail of high-concept TTRPGs for the hipster dogs to chase.

What's so crazy is that they had no idea: WotC obviously has access to a large amount of miniatures, and convention players do too, so it wasn't necessarily so clear that most people don't play games with them, for instance.

 

[MNblockhead]

What's so crazy is that they had no idea: WotC obviously has access to a large amount of miniatures, and convention players do too, so it wasn't necessarily so clear that most people don't play games with them, for instance.

When I wanted to get back into gaming, I was really put off by the need for miniatures. Watching Chris Perkins's videos helped and hurt. I loved the videos where he explains his thinking and gives tops on running the game, but his elaborate, pre-drawn maps seemed far beyond me. I bought into the impression many people had that 4e was heavily focused on tactical miniature combats and tried to make it run more like a video game, which didn't appeal to me. So, I never gave it a chance. A friend suggested Pathfinder and when I looked into it, it just seemed overwhelming. Maybe it would be fun to play, but I could never see running it.

I chalked it up to my having a lot more time for gaming in high school and stuck to board games.

Then 5e came out. It still felt substantial and I had to spend time with it, but I love the entire feel, from the quality of the art and writing, to mechanics that struck a nice balance between tactical and more free-wheeling role play. It made theater of the mind seem possible and fun and then watching Chris Perkins running some of his streaming games which used no VTT or battlemaps of any time was refreshing.

Of course now more than four years in, I have shelves bursting with terrain and minis, because, hell, they are fun and I do like tactical play. But 5e made the barrier to entry feel much more reasonable.

 

[jayoungr]

Interesting that the DMG sells better than the Monster Manual. I would have expected the MM to be the second-highest seller.

 

[Parmandur]

Interesting that the DMG sells better than the Monster Manual. I would have expected the MM to be the second-highest seller.

These are not all time numbers, but rather at the moment sales. Maybe the historical society even out more?

 

[TerraDave]

I finally got a chance to look at some of the newer books.

Art & Arcana: Awesome, especially the mondo-deluxe box set.

Ravinca: Interesting and different. Its time they tried something new, and this is new. But its also guilds, guilds, guilds. Guild stuff for players, guild stuff for DMs, guild magic items, guild monsters...I think it could use some adventure support for DMs to really get the most out of it. And it does have a certain similarity to Sigil.

Dungeon of the Made Mage: Some have said this is not a true mega dungeon, but its a lot of dungeon. Plenty for most groups, though I do think some guidance on the "expanded dungeon" would have been nice. It also lacks a certain zaz. Just in my quick review, given its size it didn't have that much that felt as out there or as interesting as lot of the stuff from, say, the iconic dungeons in Tales from the Yawning Portal.

 

[Blue]

Basically the previous 2.5 Editions were designed to be the game the designers wanted to play. Which is not unreasonable really, but the game designers who got to play every day apparently had increasingly esoteric interests.

This hit my funny bone. Because I know a little bit of truth about what the game designers of earlier editions want to play.

You see, Jonathan Tweet (one of the lead designers for D&D 3.0, the first D&D Wizards put out after the long TSR AD&D 2ed gap) and Rob Heinsoo (lead designer of 4e) got together to make a d20 game. Specifically they wanted to write the game they wanted to play in their regular group. It's called 13th Age and they said it's "A Love Letter to D&D".

It came out a bit before 5e, and both it and 5e went for a more streamlined game then the earlier editions. It has some more player narrative elements, unlike Inspiration that seems bolted on, and a touch less fiddly bits in terms of mechanics in exchange for a bit more fiddly bits in terms of DMs working with players.

It has a free SRD that contains everything, but one of the great things about the actual book/PDF is there are plentiful sidebars talking about why the designed some things some ways, what happens when you change them, and even where the two designers had conflicting ideas. It makes it very hack-able, and they support that.

 

[TerraDave]

I haven't seen this before. Amazon keeps weekly lists of "most sold" in fiction and non-fiction.

In the last week of 2018 the PHB was the 16th most sold. In non-fiction...but still.

https://www.amazon.com/charts/2018-12-23/mostsold/nonfiction/index.html?ref=CHRT_BK_SD_NF_H_DP

As of right now, using the standard ranking, its #30.

 

[TheSword]

It’s a great game. Never found an edition as easy to get new players into. My new group starting a new campaign designed 5 x fully formed characters start to finish in 2 hours on Saturday. That was with two PhBs between us all and included selecting characters and getting Chinese takeaway.

Conversely it took us 3 hours to design 3 pathfinder character, with no takeaway and the players were still a bit bewildered after.

 

[Retreater]

It’s a great game. Never found an edition as easy to get new players into. My new group starting a new campaign designed 5 x fully formed characters start to finish in 2 hours on Saturday. That was with two PhBs between us all and included selecting characters and getting Chinese takeaway.

Conversely it took us 3 hours to design 3 pathfinder character, with no takeaway and the players were still a bit bewildered after.

I agree it's an easier edition than Pathfinder, but I'm finding that I still have to constantly explain action economy, how basic spells work, opportunity attacks, etc., to my players who are new to RPGs (even though some have been playing with us for over a year).

There are some "fiddly bits" to 5e that could have been simplified to make the edition even more newbie friendly, IMO.

 

[Imaro]

I agree it's an easier edition than Pathfinder, but I'm finding that I still have to constantly explain action economy, how basic spells work, opportunity attacks, etc., to my players who are new to RPGs (even though some have been playing with us for over a year).

There are some "fiddly bits" to 5e that could have been simplified to make the edition even more newbie friendly, IMO.

Wait...what? Weren't you advocating for more complexity and more things for players to do in 5e because your players are bored and not engaged with the game (and thus why you are moving back to 4e)? It seems weird that you feel they require more mechanical things but also don't have a grasp on what some of the basic mechanics are now...