D&D 5E [GUIDE] My Word Is My Sword: The Paladin Guide

[Benny89]

Your test requeirements aren't accurate

Ok, what I need to fix?

First Paladin. Level 17:

Target has VoE on him and Paladin has Haste on him. 20 STR. Spear +2, PAM.

1 Turn: Burn smite for each attack starting from highest slot. 2 Turn: same, smite for each attack, starting from highest slot available.

Second Paladin. Level 17:

Target has VoE on him, Paladin has Holy Weapon on him. Spear + 2. 20 STR. PAM.

1 Turn: Burn smite for each attack starting from highest slot. 2 Turn: same, smite for each attack, starting from highest slot available.

Is it more clear now?

 

[smbakeresq]

Why do you care? The actual difference isn’t worth worrying about but how you RP the whole thing is. Do you move with the speed of your God or Lay the Pimp Hand of righteousness on them.

Don’t chase a small number you can’t catch.

 

[Benny89]

Why do you care? The actual difference isn’t worth worrying about but how you RP the whole thing is. Do you move with the speed of your God or Lay the Pimp Hand of righteousness on them.

Don’t chase a small number you can’t catch.

Its Character Optimization & Builds section on forum- chasing max numbers is what this is all about....

 

[FrogReaver]

Its Character Optimization & Builds section on forum- chasing max numbers is what this is all about....

I try to take a more holistic approach.

 

[smbakeresq]

Its Character Optimization & Builds section on forum- chasing max numbers is what this is all about....

At the levels you are discussing you are chasing a few points of damage vs creatures that will have hundreds. It’s like the people that weigh oranges when they are 3 for $1 trying to get the 3 heaviest ones.

There are more important things to think about in prep for the table, like how to tactically approach each situation and coordination with the team.

 

[Benny89]

At the levels you are discussing you are chasing a few points of damage vs creatures that will have hundreds. It’s like the people that weigh oranges when they are 3 for $1 trying to get the 3 heaviest ones.

There are more important things to think about in prep for the table, like how to tactically approach each situation and coordination with the team.

Still doesn't change the fact that this sub-forum is about optimization, which is about crunching and min-maxing numbers where you can.

I get what you are saying, but I don't think you are saying that in correct forum.

 

[FrogReaver]

Ok, what I need to fix?

First Paladin. Level 17:

Target has VoE on him and Paladin has Haste on him. 20 STR. Spear +2, PAM.

1 Turn: Burn smite for each attack starting from highest slot. 2 Turn: same, smite for each attack, starting from highest slot available.

Second Paladin. Level 17:

Target has VoE on him, Paladin has Holy Weapon on him. Spear + 2. 20 STR. PAM.

1 Turn: Burn smite for each attack starting from highest slot. 2 Turn: same, smite for each attack, starting from highest slot available.

Is it more clear now?

Ignoring Crits)

The haste Paladin do +3.6% to +5.8% (+9 to +16) more total damage than the Holy Weapon Paladin will do over those 2 rounds. We are talking in the ballpark of about 260-270 damage over those 2 rounds for either paladin.

The Haste Paladin will use 8-9 of his highest level spell slots.
The Holy Weapon Paladin will use 6-7 of his highest level spell slots.

Of course Haste offers movement benefits and AC. Holy Weapon offers an hour long duration and is better to cast in combat if you can't prebuff as you only give up 1 of 3 attacks to cast it instead of 2 of 4.

There's also the potential to get a reaction attack to consider and that attack is stronger with Holy Weapon.

All in all I'd call the overall comparison too close to call. Use Holy Weapon when resources might matter. Use haste when you are sure resources don't matter as the AC and movement bonuses are nice. Use haste if you are fighting an especially mobile enemy.

 

[captainbananas]

Still doesn't change the fact that this sub-forum is about optimization, which is about crunching and min-maxing numbers where you can.

I get what you are saying, but I don't think you are saying that in correct forum.

I disagree; optimization is fundamentally a question of the trade-offs that arise from decision points. The opportunity cost of a marginal increase in damage can often include foregone abilities that would improve overall party effectiveness, and as a result the true delta in damage is negative.

You can constrain your analysis to single-character damage per round if you want, but that's not the only way to slice what this forum is about.

 

[FrogReaver]

I disagree; optimization is fundamentally a question of the trade-offs that arise from decision points. The opportunity cost of a marginal increase in damage can often include foregone abilities that would improve overall party effectiveness, and as a result the true delta in damage is negative.

You can constrain your analysis to single-character damage per round if you want, but that's not the only way to slice what this forum is about.

You really disagree that optimization is about min-maxing numbers where you can? You really agree with the comment that Benny replied to that flat out dismisses the goal of optimizing damage any further because the difference won't matter much?

That's surprising to me. I think Benny was spot on. Min-maxing numbers is a big part of optimization. It's so much a part of it that it would be normal to describe optimization as about min-maxing. Those terms are even used interchangeably by most people.

If your point is just that we can optimize for other things than individual damage or that sometimes sacrificing a little bit of individual damage for something else can result in a wholly optimized character then no one has an issue with that. Your presentation of that point was off though. Arguing against Benny's correct point as a springboard for another correct point is bad form.

 

[smbakeresq]

Still doesn't change the fact that this sub-forum is about optimization, which is about crunching and min-maxing numbers where you can.

I get what you are saying, but I don't think you are saying that in correct forum.

Wrong, this is the correct forum. Optimization of the numbers on your sheet is maybe %20 of optimization of your PC, how to interface your PC with your groups needs and how to play at the table to maximize your effectiveness is the other %80.