D&D 5E Anyone else feeling "meh" about recent 5e releases?

[CapnZapp]

Let me get this straight... sea faring campaign, jungle exploring campaign, city campaign, dungeon crawl, and finally a planar adventure all in the last two years...

One explanation is that the complaint really isn't about creativity and instead means "more rules, more player crunch, more ways to break the game"...?

 

[MNblockhead]

I am certain that several other people feel that way. Both examples elicit the same reaction from your #2 for me. Your example #1 makes it seem to me that you might not have actually read any of the 5E adventure books, in point of fact.

To be fair to the poster you are responding to, this old grognard finds it a lot more work to prep the current adventure hardbacks than the old modules, and not just because of the number of pages. I loved running Curse of Strahd, but it took a LOT of homework to prepare it and I relied heavily on a number of aid to keep things straight in the game (some excellent outlines on DM's Guild, DnD Beyond for text search, etc.). Dragon Heist, Storm Kings Thunder are the same. I have not bought Princes of the Apocalypse, Out of the Abys, Tyranny of Dragons, or Hoard of the Dragon Queen but they seem like a similar chore. I find it much easier to run Tales from the Yawning Portal and am looking forward to Ghosts of Saltmarsh. I also have a new appreciation for the other classics having bought the first two Goodman Games reprints (Keep on the Borderlands and Isle of Dread).

The later are easier not only because they are shorter but there is less complicated backstory and plot lines to keep track of. Even Dungeon of the Mad Mage is easier because prepping and running a mega dungeon is easier than trying to run a party through a novel.

I've been running Rappan Athuk from Frog God Games. This beast of a book is over 500 pages, with 56 dungeon levels, 22 wilderness areas, and over 100+ keyed maps and I am running AS A BREAK from the WotC books. With a mega dungeon like Rappan Athuk the party makes the story. The plots develop organically. Sure, you want to be familiar with the overall dungeon, but you are generally needing to read carefully over a small amount of content covering where the party is likely to be during your next game, and, if they end up somewhere you completely didn't expect, you can take a short break and quickly read over the area to make sure you understand any more complicated encounter or trap. Usually I don't need a break.

I thought maybe it was because I'm an experienced DM that I feel this way. After all, a LOT of people didn't like Dungeon of the Mad Mage. And it seems like many of the new DMs that 5e drew into the game needed their hands held and that the players expected a rich and intricate plot to take part in. But I watch my son who will be going on 13 years and he is turned off by the big hardcovers on my shelf and using graph paper and the online tool Notion, creates his own dungeons with simple plots that I enjoy just as much as the published material. And I like how most of my son's time is spend MAKING maps, MAKING monsters on D&D beyond, MAKING new making items on D&D beyond. I love how the main book he references is the DMs Guide because some of the tables are useful to helping you quickly MAKE things.

THAT is what is missing from most of the published material. Gaps. There is too much to cram and two few blanks to fill.

Now the benefit of being an experienced DM--and a busy, aging, and increasingly forgetful DM--is that when, despite all my prep, I get something wrong or forget something important, I just go with it and it becomes the adventure. The gaps in my memory become the gaps that are missing in the publication. Under-preparing can lead to a more creative and customized game.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I think there is an issue with book long adventures. If I'm playing a campaign that long I only have a vague idea of the overall plot, for, I think, a very good reason: it depends on the players!

If you have a campaign mapped out from level 1 to 10 from day one, it must involve either a lot of railroading, or a lot of parallel content that won't be used, or both.

As such, the only adventure books I have used are TftYP and GoS. I think the idea of including shorter adventures in setting books, as was done with Ravnica and is planned for Eberron, is the way forwards.

 

[MNblockhead]

I am curious to know the real numbers, but I'd wager that the price of getting 7-ish modules (it varies: Dragon Heist has a couple dozen dungeons, which is pretty significant for purely looting purposes) or a years subscription to Dungeon would be comparable or more expensive compared to the big adventure books.

Moreover, WotC DOES publish small modules and in a cheap and convenient PDF format. There are MANY great adventure's league modules on DMs Guild, written by many of the same professionals that work on the hardcovers as well as many more good artists you may not have had the pleasure of encountering.

Any you can get it without having to drive to your FLGS or wait for Amazon to ship it you.

[Stepping up onto my soap box]

I don't get the kvetching about the lack of early-era style D&D modules. We have them. Lot's of them. And not reprints--brand new adventures. That are very affordable.

What more do these folks want? Are they angry that they don't have to drive to a mall, park, walk to the Walden Books, and enjoy a Cinnabon while paging through their new purchase?

I lived through the era of blue-print maps on removable card-stock covers. It was nice because that was all we had. If 80s me had access to print-quality PDFs and printers that could print them, for a fraction of the cost, AND not having to wait until my mom had to do some shopping so I could get to the book store, I would have been ecstatic.

 

[S'mon]

I think there is an issue with book long adventures. If I'm playing a campaign that long I only have a vague idea of the overall plot, for, I think, a very good reason: it depends on the players!

There are ways to make it work. IME Rich Baker does it well (Red Hand of Doom, Princes of the Apocalypse) but the Paizo approach of AP comprising multiple linear adventures is generally pretty terrible. Most WoTC 5e adventures try to avoid the Railroad, but then end up a bit of a mess in consequence.

 

[S'mon]

Moreover, WotC DOES publish small modules and in a cheap and convenient PDF format. There are MANY great adventure's league modules on DMs Guild, written by many of the same professionals that work on the hardcovers as well as many more good artists you may not have had the pleasure of encountering.

Could you list some? I find locating good stuff on DMs Guild not easy!

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Could you list some? I find locating good stuff on DMs Guild not easy!

I have an issue finding the good stuff too. In ye olden days when you went to your FLGS your choice was limited to what they had on the shelves, and if you didn't make a decision it would be a while before you got another chance. This made it much easier to decide.

 

[Xenonnonex]

There are ways to make it work. IME Rich Baker does it well (Red Hand of Doom, Princes of the Apocalypse) but the Paizo approach of AP comprising multiple linear adventures is generally pretty terrible. Most WoTC 5e adventures try to avoid the Railroad, but then end up a bit of a mess in consequence.

I find the six part breakdown of Paizo's APs and their reliance on their freelancers lacks internal coherency, as if Paizo and their freelancers do not communicate well with each other.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I dunno, I find there are some pretty obvious rules to follow, like "You all meet in a tavern" or "Nick Fury wants to meet with you".

I think when you are publishing a fancy hardback book you feel under more pressure to avoid cliché than you do when your are writing in an old exercise book. I suppose it's a case in point that Hunt for the Thesselhydra, a parody of a homemade adventure, begins with "Nick Fury wants to meet with you."

GoS is pretty good: each of the adventures has around four plot hooks.

 

[S'mon]

I find the six part breakdown of Paizo's APs and their reliance on their freelancers lacks internal coherency, as if Paizo and their freelancers do not communicate well with each other.

Yes, there seems to be very limited oversight & editing. Generally the first couple adventures are pretty good, the next couple are filler, and the last couple are generally stronger again.

The Rise of the Runelords hardback is good though and clearly had much more effort put in; I don't own the Crimson Throne hardback.