TSR Rob Kuntz Recounts The Origins Of D&D

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In this interesting article from Kotaku, Rob Kuntz relates a history of early TSR that differs somewhat from the narrative we usually hear. It delves into the relationship between Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson (D&D's co-creators) and the actual development of the game, which dates back to Arneson in 1971.

Dungeons & Deceptions: The First D&D Players Push Back On The Legend Of Gary Gygax

Everybody calls Rob Kuntz last, he says. Those who want to know about the history of Dungeons & Dragons start with co-creator Gary Gygax’s kids, one of Gygax’s biographers, or D&D publisher Wizards of the Coast. As they’re wrapping things up, they might get around to dialing up Kuntz, a...

kotaku.com

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

Paladins are certainly French, but the gnoble gnome is of Swiss extraction (Paracelsus was Swiss-german). You can still find some of us in Zürich, working in the banking industry.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

Paladins are certainly French, but the gnoble gnome is of Swiss extraction (Paracelsus was Swiss-german). You can still find some of us in Zürich, working in the banking industry.

Y'know, having Gnomes as Not-Swiss in a world isn't the worst idea in the world, it kinda makes sense with their abilities. hmm....

 

[Rob Kuntz]

This leaves me utterly confused, so I'll just ask:

In your view/memory, what is the sequentiality (if any) between wargames, Braunstein, Chainmail, D&D, and the various key people connected thereto? What, in other words, led to what; and what if anything was an outlier?

Wesely, for example, claimed he "taught Arneson how to play [RPGs]" while setting up for a Braunstein game some 15+ years ago that I was in. True? Untrue? Partly true?

Thanks!

To condense: Arneson created an entirely new game category type. NOTE: not a new sub category but an entirely new category. This is genesis like the car was to the horse drawn cart. THUS, and in order to do that, he had to create/organize a new system to do so--one cannot exist without the other, it's impossible. Further, lineality, the linking of past to present, cannot be traced by saying something that is new which does not relate to old systems in fact descends from them, as in Chainmail's or Braunstein's case. Thus. Chainmail and Bruanstein are influences ONLY (and as are other influences of the time), but are not linked directly in the lineal chain claims otherwise. In fact it is scientifically and theoretically impossible for a new system to have antecedents. Arneson's organization is a genesis and a new system starting point (otherwise known as a Garden of Eden state) according to my research.

 

[Aldarc]

Y'know, having Gnomes as Not-Swiss in a world isn't the worst idea in the world, it kinda makes sense with their abilities. hmm....

They kinda-sorta are in Eberron, though the dwarves of House Kundarak are the bankers.

 

[Alzrius]

Rob, thanks for joining us here! I'm sure I speak for quite a few people when I say that I'm eagerly awaiting your next book! I quite enjoyed Dave Arneson's True Genius, even if I found it challenging to get through, so I'm sure I'll like your subsequent release as well.

In the meantime, I wanted to ask what you thought of Dave Megarry's recent quotes about the early days of TSR, prompted by the recent article. Specifically, where he says:

You must realize that the bulk of the creative Minnesota people were working for TSR in 1976: Arneson (D&D, Adventures in Fantasy, First Fantasy Campaign...), Megarry (Guerrilla War, Dungeon!, Pentastar...)and Carr (Don't Give Up The Ship, Fight in The Skies, 24 Hours of Le Mans...); the only people not represented were the David Wesely (Strategos N, Braunstein, Source of the Nile, Valley Forge...), Ross Maker (Source of the Nile), The Snider Brothers (Richard: Adventures in Fantasy, Mutant...John: Star Probe and Star Empires) and Professor Barker (Empire of the Petal Throne). Did I forget anyone? (Duane Jenkins with his Western RPG??).

[...]

We embraced the downstairs work as we realized the company would flounder if it wasn't done. Terry Kuntz got the Dungeon Hobby shop in order and it was contributing to the cash flow of the operation as well. Unfortunately (or fortunately from a TSR perspective) Arneson was an excellent shipping clerk and shipping hummed. As the inflationary growth spurt started to set in, Arneson's contribution to the company as a shipping clerk became more and more important. Arneson, of course, felt this was a demotion of a sort and began to rail against the role he had slipped into. When he tried to assert his creative input, it was rejected (almost out of hand). He had been hired to be a designer; that he stormed out after being rejected as such, is not surprising.

[...]

Tim's dealings with Arneson were jaded with by the experiences we had together in 1976 at TSR Headquarters. From Tim's point of view, Arneson and most of the Minnesota contingent were not very productive on the creative front. The Arneson Basement crowd ended up that year doing a lot of nuts and bolts running the "downstairs" part of the business. It was the time of the 2nd stage of a business [...] Tim was really stretching himself to create a successful magazine and, IMHO, felt that the other "creative" staff was not pulling their weight. You must realize that the bulk of the creative Minnesota people were working for TSR in 1976: Arneson, Megarry and Carr; the only people not represented were the Snider Brothers and Professor Barker. That we produced not one item (other than the Blackmoor supplement) must have seemed to him we lacked the creative spark. Tim was part of the "upstairs" and wouldn't necessarily have appreciated what was happening to the company in the late Fall 1976.

Does this match with what you remember?

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Rob Kuntz]

Rob, thanks for joining us here! I'm sure I speak for quite a few people when I say that I'm eagerly awaiting your next book! I quite enjoyed Dave Arneson's True Genius, even if I found it challenging to get through, so I'm sure I'll like your subsequent release as well.

In the meantime, I wanted to ask what you thought of Dave Megarry's recent quotes about the early days of TSR, prompted by the recent article. Specifically, where he says:



Does this match with what you remember?

This is basically true. Arneson and Megarry had brought those two games, 1972, to showcase to us: The First RPG game we experienced via Blackmoor and then, the same night, what would be renamed the Dungeon (board game). This catapulted TSR forward when D&D was released, and the rest of the Minnesota crowd, as Dave noted, followed suit. Now, Arneson was actually hired as "Research Director" and worked offsite at his Cook and Wisconsin St apartment--there was no room for him at the Williams and Marshall street building. When I quit as Shipping Manager (but not as Convention Chairman, I did Winter Fantasy 1 as my last after 2 stints with GENCON), Ernie Gygax was brought on board to handle shipping, but when my brother quit, Ernie was moved to Dungeon Hobby Shop mngr and Dave Arneson became the shipping clerk. When he quit it was out of disgust for never having been allowed near design since his arrival.

Note that Chainmail, Don't Give Up the Ship had been published by Guidon Games when Gary was their rules editor. They were later reverted, or bought back from Guidon, for TSR releases. Gary would release Ancient Warfare mini rules and Battle of the Little Big Horn board game through TSR in 1976. Empire of the Petal Throne (MAR Barker, in Minn) would be the grandest release outside of Dungeon. So when all is said and done, the cutting edge ideas were coming from the Minnesota group/area as the only title (their first) that TSR had published before D&D was mini rules for the English civil war, Cavaliers and Roundheads (Perren and Gygax).

Boy Morrus needs to give me a Q&A @Morrus.

 

[Morrus]

Boy Morrus needs to give me a Q&A @Morrus.

I've got your email address -- I'll email you tomorrow and we'll set something up!

 

[Tony Vargas]

“Arneson set up his 3-ring binder as a screen between us and him,” wrote Kuntz ... “He noted that we could be either heroes or wizards. Gary chose to be a wizard and the rest of us heroes.”

Even then, Fighter was the most popular class. ;P

 

[Rob Kuntz]

“Arneson set up his 3-ring binder as a screen between us and him,” wrote Kuntz ... “He noted that we could be either heroes or wizards. Gary chose to be a wizard and the rest of us heroes.”

Even then, Fighter was the most popular class. ;P

From Roland to Kambei Shimada to Conan to Robilar to present (and then some, of course).