Child abuse in regards to Dungeons and Dragons IRL, how should such things be handled.

[billd91]

It may not have been outright abuse and it's hard to assess much from the incident you related, after all, everyone has a bad day once in a while and loses their cool. But it's worth keeping your eyes open. If they're threatening to kick their kid out of the house at about 16 in a public venue, they don't seem to be deterred from publicly humiliating their kids. Done often or severely enough, that really is abuse.

If you're seriously concerned, suggest the older kid check out local youth services so he knows what kind of options he has if they do kick him out. Knowing his safety net options may help him chart his way through the stress if they lower the boom on him.

 

[Celebrim]

If you're seriously concerned, suggest the older kid check out local youth services...

How much experience do you have with what happens with "youth services"?

This is not a joke. This isn't a hypothetical now. This isn't an argument about something like whether low level PC's could know whether a troll is vulnerable to fire. These are real lives we are talking about mucking with. Any time you bring the authorities into this conversation, you are risking the health and safety of the minor, so you better damn well be sure that you are actually protecting the minor from an equivalent level of risk of death and bodily harm. This is not something you do on a whim or because you are offended.

We have an adult here that was complicit - however unwittingly - in encouraging a child to disobey his parents and sneak out of the house. And you are like wondering why the parents might have lost their cool? I related this story to my wife and she was like, "And he thinks he's the one that has a right to be angry?" So while we are on the subject, yeah I pretty much think I'd be the one offering apologies in this circumstance.

The reality of the world is that I had to explain to my children that there are monsters in the world. Some of those monsters are the sort that might want to prey on blond, blue-eyed girls. But some of those monsters are the sort of people that get offended because they decide they don't like how other parents are parenting. When my child at age 10 asked why they couldn't walk to a friends house alone, it was that later class of monsters that was foremost in my mind, because there are a lot more of them in the world than the overtly predatory kind.

Every once in a while some Christian or Christian community thinks it is a great idea to facilitate bringing children from non-religious homes (or other religions) into a religious context to bring about a conversion experience or get them baptized or whatever without the consent and knowledge of the parents. It's that sort of well-meaning stupidity that this notion that a parent banning a kid from playing an RPG and taking away their toys constitutes "abuse" reminds me of, and I think what's really going on here is not well meaning concern for the kids, but moral preening, bigotry, self-righteous, and a complete failure of empathy for cultures outside your experience.

If you think my language is tough and confrontational, then yes you are getting my drift accurately. I've been on EnWorld 15 years now and this is the first thread I've been in however heated that was actually freaking scary. All the useless verbiage about a leisure activity have nothing on the content of what is being argued right now. These are lives we are talking about. Don't squeeze any triggers unless you are sure of the consequences. I can't imagine what might have happened had someone like the OP "intervened" in my life, but it likely would have killed me. I don't know what is going on in that home, but the whole notion that what was witnessed was abuse would be humorous if the consequences involved weren't so terrible.

 

[Celebrim]

tl;dr:

"Maybe you should consider swatting this family?"

NO.

 

[billd91]

I’m not talking about Child Protective Services. I’m talking about counseling programs and youth services that deal with homeless kids and kids at risk. Because if that kid gets thrown out of his home, he’s going to be under a lot of stress. Better to know where to turn than be completely adrift.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I think that, since:

1) billd91 couched his advice in terms of “if you are genuinely concerned”,

2) in the context of how many of the responses so far in this thread are on the side of “not abuse” (and why), and

3) only the OP was there, and we don’t know anything beyond what was stated- like body language, tone, commentary by other witnesses

I think billd91 was actually giving good advice, seemingly not springing out of bigotry, but an abundance of caution.

...because sometimes the parents ARE monsters, and of a nature that rarely gets witnessed in public. Informing the kid of options without being accusatory or inflammatory may save him down the road. Or it may save a buddy of his whose parents are real-deal evil.

I’m not being flip about this; I’ve seen several permutations up close and personal, ranging from genuine sexual abuse of a minor perpetrated by a man on his kids to someone abusing the CPS system by falsely accusing my maternal aunt of abuse

 

[aramis erak]

That said, this seems FAR worse. They actually tossed something he had saved up his money for and bought. The threatened to toss his brother out on his own (16 years of age, there has to be something against that), simply for playing this game.

In many states, children have no property rights; any property they buy is actually property of their parents until they reach a specific age. That age varies by state, but in all US states is no older than 18.
Likewise, no child below a certain age (varies by state, but federal sets a minimum at 13, at least for internet uses) can sign a contract.

Edit to add: Last RPG book burning I saw advertised was around 2012.

 

[ccs]

I did not know what to do, except sit in stunned silence. However, it struck me that this was a situation of extreme child abuse. All of us at the venue were stunned though. I didn't quite know what to do. I don't think any of us did. Later I thought perhaps I should call the police, but what could I say? Would they actually categorize it as abuse?

It SOUNDS as extreme abuse to me.

This is your threshold of what constitutes extreme child abuse?
Wow....
You are so ignorant that you are dangerous.

What should you do?
1) Go educate yourself about child abuse. After you've properly horrified yourself....
2) As others have recommended, DO NOTHING. There's no abuse here. But you can make the situation worse for everyone (including you).
3) Pray that these parents don't decide to come after you for your role in corrupting their children. Sound absurd? It's not. You're the adult leader of an activity they've deemed inappropriate for their children.
4) Don't allow minors into your games without the express permission & knowledge of their parents.
5) Ponder this: What do you believe in? (don't post a reply, just think)
What values does your family operate under? Now what would you do when your child becomes involved in something that violates that & brings offensive material home?

 

[Ulfgeir]

Even though I really dislike religion, and consider religion to be actually harmful, I do not think you have a case here. And you open yourself to more legal trouble if you persist.

That said, one thing you can do to show that rpgs are not of the devil, is to point to the fact that a diocese here in Sweden actually published a couple of small rpgs in the 90's. The ones I remember was called "quo vadis?", and "vägen". The latter translates as "the way. Those games were about ethical situation in historical settings. And they use them in their confirmation-courses.

There has also been a number of article about how rpgs can be used in education, and the positive effects that can have.

Edited due to spelling errors when writing on the phone...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Don't allow minors into your games without the express permission & knowledge of their parents.

Solid advice for ANY activity involving kids doing activities with adults when the parents generally won’t be around to supervise/monitor/chaperone. Scouting, band, dance classes, sports...most require some sort of permission slips or adult signups.

 

[Ulfgeir]

Solid advice for ANY activity involving kids doing activities with adults when the parents generally won’t be around to supervise/monitor/chaperone. Scouting, band, dance classes, sports...most require some sort of permission slips or adult signups.

That is a very good point. Minors can't legally enter contracts, and yes it is good to have the parent's permission that they are allowed to participate.

And we as adults should also do what we can to make sure that any such activities are as safe as possible. For example; I am an instructor in the archery club at home, and I had to get from the police a paper certifying that I have no serious convictions. The national sports organization will demand from next year if I recall correctly that all instructors hand in such papers to their clubs in order for them to be allowed to be around children. Same goes for example for teachers or kindergarten teachers when they start a new job.