What is the essence of D&D

[Garthanos]

No, what I'm saying is that there is a subset of people that, inter alia, really liked the way that 4e handled martial powers. Which is great! But that doesn't mean that everyone who didn't like it, didn't like it for the reason that these people like it.

Oh the argument is again not even that everyone who didnt like it did so because it lacked primacy of magic just sort of a subset of that which says primacy of magic is the deciding feature for the "Not D&D" where as your it just generally had too many changes many of which I argue would have taken different form or not have been done (even with balanced classes as the dominant goal) IF not for the need to establish a new IP base because of the OGL is actually probably a more well rounded argument. Primacy of magic may have been a big one even if others existed. AND the number of the elements in 5e from 4e as was pointed out which still manage to still be D&D is support for the argument that primacy of magic is one that may have been a huge one. (even if you are right its not the only)

 

[lowkey13]

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[Garthanos]

Also does someone not like "that a problem was solved because it was a feature" or "how it was solved" - it often ends up looking the same.

 

[Imaro]

Also does someone not like "that a problem was solved because it was a feature" or "how it was solved" - it often ends up looking the same.

This makes no sense.

 

[Garthanos]

This makes no sense.

Does it not parse right? I do not like feature X. Some times means "I do not like that X changed Y" ... but sometimes it means "I would like changing Y but not by using X."
??

 

[Guest 6801328]

This makes no sense.

I think what he was saying was that people may not necessarily want the primacy of magic, but that primacy of magic is the necessary solution to what they do want.

 

[Garthanos]

I think what he was saying was that people may not necessarily want the primacy of magic, but that primacy of magic is the necessary solution to what they do want.

Or the opposite how one might want less primacy of magic but do not like taming its potency down ( perhaps because they cannot come up with non-magic other things which do the trick. )

 

[Arnwolf666]

That's not really true. Power Words, for example, had a casting time of 1. And even Fireball or Lightning Bolt are still a casting time of 3, which is 2 better than a longsword. I've always wondered about these groups that constantly have spells interrupted. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it's something I never saw.

Considering Large monsters had +6 to their initiative, and anything bigger than that went all the way up to +12, I've always been rather surprised at how often people claim that spells got interrupted.

We never used the optional rule of speed factor.

 

[lowkey13]

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[Arnwolf666]

You are basically right. And there are in the 2E PHB 3 different optimal rules for initiative. And no official rule for initiative. I guarantee you 90% of the rules in the book are optional. Personally I like that about 2E. I don’t like the straight jacket of other systems as well for me.