What is the essence of D&D

[lowkey13]

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[Garthanos]

"I'd point out that it's 4e critics that brought all this up."

No. This was brought up by Tony Vargas.

Tony I think was inspired by Oofta who mentioned 4e as not D&D? sorry forgot the spelling...

Ooof even realized he had created a divergence

 

[lowkey13]

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[Maxperson]

Its just not my goal in general I was showing contribution after firing that spell in a more normal setting - maybe its yours.

Plus a ranged combatant can have less hit points with fewer problems so i am not sure its realistic either to make it a face to face duel.

Um. They're darts. Short range is 15 feet. Medium is 30 feet. Actually, in 1e it was 1.5 and 3, because it used inches to represent feet x 10. At short or medium range, the fighter just walks up and hits the wizard. And at medium range the wizard has -2 to hit, so that 15 to hit, becomes a 17. And if we use 1e as written, the wizard has a further -2 to hit due to the fighter's AC of 5, so that 17 becomes a 19. If you move to 45 feet for long range, then the wizard's penalty to hit further erodes and he now needs a 22 to hit the AC 5 fighter.

So yeah, go ahead and throw darts from a good distance away.

Kobolds are basically what the example shows (7) d4 and goblins(8) d8 human soldiers with ac 8 to 4 with d6 hit points they are level appropriate enemies using weapons.

The vast majority of 1st level fights are not to kobolds and goblins. Most fights will involve creatures with 1 or more full hit dice.

The mage is now contributing and can do so situationally,

Sure. I guess in a few corner cases the mage stops being useless with darts.

 

[Garthanos]

Um. They're darts. Short range is 15 feet. Medium is 30 feet. Actually, in 1e it was 1.5 and 3, because it used inches to represent feet x 10. At short or medium range, the fighter just walks up and hits the wizard.

And yeh your typical encounter is the wizard on the front row standing at the hip of the fighter grinning and taking it LOL -- again you present it as VS

 

[Garthanos]

Post 87:

What is the essence of D&D

Killing monsters and taking their stuff. Oh, and traps, and weird uses of magic. And leveling, and getting your stronghold. And henchmen. And worrying about dying, because you very possibly could die. Permanently.

www.enworld.org

Here's my immediate reply to everyone:

What is the essence of D&D

Killing monsters and taking their stuff. Oh, and traps, and weird uses of magic. And leveling, and getting your stronghold. And henchmen. And worrying about dying, because you very possibly could die. Permanently.

www.enworld.org

View it as you wish. That's the point it went off the rails.

"But ever since I've been playing, some things have remained the same. We still roll a D20 to resolve attacks and our defensive saving throws. We still have HP, AC, the standard ability scores. Yes, the math is a bit different and the number and type of dice we roll has been tweaked but my AD&D fighter/rogue can be recreated with more-or-less same feel in 5E. Wizards still cast fireballs and clerics still heal.

I think 4E (again, a game I really, really did try to enjoy) is the exception that proves the rule. There was just something ... missing. "

OK not explicitly 4e isnt D&D but the trigger of sounding it out as the NOT D&D never the less

 

[lowkey13]

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[lowkey13]

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[Garthanos]

You are asserting the position that in 1e, 1st level MUs are really combat useful?

More like showing a way to make them more useful... 10 feet behind the fighter is fairly typical from my memory and enough to dart like crazy and the offensive output via weapon speed factor would be not horrible and the accuracy is a small amount different.

 

[Garthanos]

Yeah, one person said that. And it could have been ignored as personal opinion

It was a common opined thing and often way more extremely ... hence the reason Tony decided to do his I am going to figure out where that came from analysis AND yes I LOVE /sarcasm that it meant rehashing being told I do not belong in your tent lowkey13