D&D 5E Is the Wall of Faithless in 5e?

[Arnwolf666]

Or maybe the wall of the faithless is to prevent asmodeus from getting their souls.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Or maybe the wall of the faithless is to prevent asmodeus from getting their souls.

There are other ways.

Like, they could simply go to a place maintained by Kelemvor, who could raise some exarchs to help manage things.

Or they could be reincarnated.

Or any number of other things. Every other setting manages just fine without the wall. It’s just the FR deities that get what they want/need at the direct and entirely merciless threat of oblivion.

Which is Evil.

 

[Arnwolf666]

There are other ways.

Like, they could simply go to a place maintained by Kelemvor, who could raise some exarchs to help manage things.

Or they could be reincarnated.

Or any number of other things. Every other setting manages just fine without the wall. It’s just the FR deities that get what they want/need at the direct and entirely merciless threat of oblivion.

Which is Evil.

maybe the wall was the only way kelemvor could deny the souls to asmodeus. Gods are not all powerful.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

maybe the wall was the only way kelemvor could deny the souls to asmodeus. Gods are not all powerful.

Eh, why go out of our way to justify it? None of this stuff is real. We can literally just recognize a crappy thing and...just change it.

 

[Arnwolf666]

Eh, why go out of our way to justify it? None of this stuff is real. We can literally just recognize a crappy thing and...just change it.

Sometime there is a reason for a crappy thing. Why tear it down for meta reasons when there is a very good in game reason for it being there. More of an act of mercy that kelemvor is preventing asmodeus from getting their souls.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Sometime there is a reason for a crappy thing. Why tear it down for meta reasons when there is a very good in game reason for it being there. More of an act of mercy that kelemvor is preventing asmodeus from getting their souls.

Asmodeous isn’t getting their souls in other worlds. The wall isn’t necessary. There isn’t a good in game reason for it being there.

Also, do you even have any canon source that says that is why the wall has to exist?

 

[Hussar]

Because, there's a cosmos beyond the Realms, everywhere else in the Multiverse souls go to the plane that mostly matched their alignment in life -save for extreme devotees of certain deities-. The Wall is actually placed so no soul can go to its rightfully earned afterlife. The Wall is essentially trapping everybody born on Toril so they can be held hostage to the local deities. All of it so they can gain more and more power...

Ah, so, now Forgotten Realms has to bow to Planescape canon. Nope. Sorry. As far as Forgotten Realms is concerned, none of that applies. You are playing Forgotten Realms. There are no Powers. There are no Penitents. It's all Planescape stuff that need not apply.

Unless you want to argue that I MUST accept Planescape canon before I can play Forgotten Realms. In which case, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[Hussar]

But how in the Hells does “being indifferent to the gods, entire” quality as “the worst of the worst”?

In a setting where the faithless would automatically go to Hell and become part of the enemy's armies, yeah, that's the worst of the worst. Heck, a CE mass murderer doesn't go to Hell in Forgotten Realms, he goes to whatever diety he worships. So, a mass murdering, evil as can be, worshipper of Loviatar doesn't go to Asmodeus at all. That worshipper goes to Loviatar.

Being "Faithless" is a deliberate choice. You have to actually go out of your way to be faithless in Forgotten Realms and actively denounce the gods.

It's funny. Folks often complain about how vanilla Forgotten Realms is, and how it lacks any identity, but, here, we see what happens when you actually have some identity. Folks get all bent out of shape because they actually have to make characters that engage in the setting (have faith) rather than yet another cypher character with no connections to the setting.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

In a setting where the faithless would automatically go to Hell and become part of the enemy's armies, yeah, that's the worst of the worst. Heck, a CE mass murderer doesn't go to Hell in Forgotten Realms, he goes to whatever diety he worships. So, a mass murdering, evil as can be, worshipper of Loviatar doesn't go to Asmodeus at all. That worshipper goes to Loviatar.

Being "Faithless" is a deliberate choice. You have to actually go out of your way to be faithless in Forgotten Realms and actively denounce the gods.

It's funny. Folks often complain about how vanilla Forgotten Realms is, and how it lacks any identity, but, here, we see what happens when you actually have some identity. Folks get all bent out of shape because they actually have to make characters that engage in the setting (have faith) rather than yet another cypher character with no connections to the setting.

You’re making a lot of BS assumptions about people, and at best bordering on making things personal, here. Please either tone it down or don’t reply to me again.

You can, and I always do, make a character with connections and that engages with the setting, regardless of serving any god. While my most current FRcharacter is a Chosen, others I’ve played variously just don’t care much about the gods, or in one case view them as mostly dangerous hyper-powerful lunatics. Like extremely powerful wizards but much worse. That character lived through the Time of Troubles and the Spellplague, and was done with gods.

And you’re still arguing from the conclusion that there needs to be a wall. There isn’t one in any other setting, even when there is an Asmodeous, and various other entities that want souls. The idea that refusing to worship anyone merits utter oblivion, in a setting where the gods are objectively not especially great, is just absurd.

 

[Leatherhead]

In a setting where the faithless would automatically go to Hell and become part of the enemy's armies, yeah, that's the worst of the worst. Heck, a CE mass murderer doesn't go to Hell in Forgotten Realms, he goes to whatever diety he worships. So, a mass murdering, evil as can be, worshipper of Loviatar doesn't go to Asmodeus at all. That worshipper goes to Loviatar.

But Asmodeus is a god in FR. He gets his own fair share of souls, plus more due to contracts. If anything the wall benefits his armies more due to the gang of devils that hang out around it angling for last-second signature from souls who would otherwise be Bricked.

Yes, that's right, you can even sign your soul away after you are dead, as it takes a bit of time to be Judged. And there is nothing a Devil loves more than a technicality.

Being "Faithless" is a deliberate choice. You have to actually go out of your way to be faithless in Forgotten Realms and actively denounce the gods.

That's only half true. It's actually possible to end up as a Faithless from simple ignorance. In a more extreme example: A baby could be taken as a slave for mindflayers, used for experiments and labor as a kid, then turned into a delicious grey protein smoothie sometime after they have "ripened" into a teenager. All without knowing about any god from any Farunian pantheon. (I suppose they could learn about Thoon, but that would hardly help them~) Just because the gods come down for tea and crumpets every tenday, it doesn't mean their hands extend everywhere in the world.