Pathfinder 2E Pathfinder 2e: Actual Play Experience

[billd91]

Role Master had some problems, as a game, but I remember being really nervous when combat erupted.

With those crit tables, who wouldn't be? I had a DM use them in a D&D game.

 

[Tony Vargas]

As someone who has been running and playing 5th edition since the day in came out, how can there be a notion that wizards are more balanced?

Well, OT1H, there are more full casters in 5e and they're not as far behind the wizard.

But, mostly, I think it's just that 5e is very much the Compromise Edition, relative any edition that did something the most/hardest/worst, 5e is the less/easier/not-so-bad edition.

5e gives you more choice points than 0e/1e/B/X.
5e isn't as bloated as 2e/3e/4e/PF.
5e is better-balanced than 3.x/PF.

You could probably circle around the other editions several times, each time picking out something 5e does better than the edition that did it worst, and ignoring the edition(s) that had already done that same thing, as well, or even better.

There has never been a truly balanced version of D&D / Pathfinder but they are all trying with every iteration. Here's to another attempt and hopefully it keeps being fun at higher levels!

I really don't think they have often tried very hard, at all. I mean, there's some anecdote about Heinsoo having to constantly remind his team not to just make the wizard more powerful - the moment he left, the wizard started getting upgrades.
Like, "Wizard is Best Pony" is the heart & soul of D&D.

 

[Xenonnonex]

As someone who has been running and playing 5th edition since the day in came out, how can there be a notion that wizards are more balanced? Any caster class in 5th Edition eats up all the special things the other classes do such as a wizard with the correct background is a better rogue than a rogue at breaking into places, sneaking, convincing people lies etc. Play a Bladesinger and not only can you fight but your ac is off the charts high and you get full spells. There has never been a truly balanced version of D&D / Pathfinder but they are all trying with every iteration. Here's to another attempt and hopefully it keeps being fun at higher levels!

I do not know how you have been running or playing 5e but concentration plays a large part in reigning in the casters.
A caster in 5e also has more of a limited selection of spells available to them. And you do not gain more spells based on your key ability modifier. Sure you can try to be a better rogue but do you really want to cast from that spell list what the rogue can reliably do with their expertise?
The bladesinger can only pump up their AC limited times a day.
5e does try to make everyone more of a team player. No one is an island.

 

[Parmandur]

I do not know how you have been running or playing 5e but concentration plays a large part in reigning in the casters.
A caster in 5e also has more of a limited selection of spells available to them. And you do not gain more spells based on your key ability modifier. Sure you can try to be a better rogue but do you really want to cast from that spell list what the rogue can reliably do with their expertise?
The bladesinger can only pump up their AC limited times a day.
5e does try to make everyone more of a team player. No one is an island.

I mean, one of the strengths of 5E is that the game can not be pushed very hard, and it doesn't break. One encounter a day? Sure, the Wizard and Paladin will outshine everyone, but as long as fun is had at the table, who cares?

 

[qstor]

Yes, I'm not too sure about Vancian casting either, and wished they'd gone the 5e route in this area.

Not to thread jack but to me that's a key part of "D&D" and why I wasn't crazy about 4e or 5e.

I've only run the playtest and started playing an online game for PF2. I have the CRB but haven't delved into it that much.

I'm used to 3e and PF1 so some of the things that take an action in the 3 action economy I'd probably house rule as taking no action like drawing a weapon. I've been runing PF1 for ten years and I'm running two adventure paths now in PF1 so I'm not sure I'm going to switch. But I'm looking forward to playing more of PF2 to get a sense of the system before I decide to run it.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I do not know how you have been running or playing 5e but concentration plays a large part in reigning in the casters.

Relative to what, though? Relative to 3.5, when concentration checks could be cheesed to the point they were virtually automatic? Sure, a bit. Relative to 1e when you needed to concentrate to even cast a spell at all, and any damage spoiled that concentration & lost the spell, or 4e, where you needed to spend actual actions to keep one of your precious 4 daily spells rolling? Not s'much.

A caster in 5e also has more of a limited selection of spells available to them.

Compared to what? Even 3.5 you either cast spontaneous or prepped, in 5e you can combine the versatility of both. There hasn't been 10 years of book-a-month supplementation to bloat the spell lists, but it was only ever a matter of selecting the /best/ spells...

5e does try to make everyone more of a team player. No one is an island.

Again, relative. More of a team player than PvP-friendly 3.x, or old-school cooperating-for-survival rivals-for-the-most-treasure? Sure. More of a team than the formal roles of 4e? Not at all.


That's what I meant by 'compromise edition' - 5e has stronger weaknesses than D&D at it's worst, and weaker strengths than at it's best. You can paint it prettymuch how you like.
It really doesn't mean much when comparing it to PF2 that 5e has more options than Basic or less bloat than 3.5/PF1, what matters is how it compares to PF2.

 

[Mistwell]

I think it's great people are playing so much PF2 that they have so many actual play reports to tell people about in this thread!

Oh wait...

 

[Parmandur]

I think it's great people are playing so much PF2 that they have so many actual play reports to tell people about in this thread!

Oh wait...

I for one am shocked, shocked to find thread drift in this establishment.

 

[Mistwell]

I for one am shocked, shocked to find thread drift in this establishment.

I mean, we couldn't even get through page 4 of a thread discussing actual play discussion of a new edition 10 years in the making without an edition war breaking out concerning 3e vs 4e vs 5e...in the PF2 forum as a proxy battleground.

It's not just thread drift. It's not like we're discussing some aspect of PF2 actual play and went down some rabbit hole there. This discussion isn't even about products from the same friggen company making the game being discussed!

 

[Parmandur]

I mean, we couldn't even get through page 4 of a thread discussing actual play discussion of a new edition 10 years in the making without an edition war breaking out concerning 3e vs 4e vs 5e...in the PF2 forum as a proxy battleground.

It's not just thread drift. It's not like we're discussing some aspect of PF2 actual play and went down some rabbit hole there. This discussion isn't even about products from the same friggen company making the game being discussed!

I blame the new forum software: I just look at the new posts view, the sub-forums are basically meaningless now.