D&D 5E Eldritch Blast and Repelling Blast - One time or Each Hit?

[delph]

If you pick up a feat, and three invocations, a multiclass and a consumable resource you deserve to get something good.

But the truth is, a range of 1200 feet is pointless unless you also have telescopic vision. It's further than you can see, and a lot longer than any dungeon corrador.

1 feat, 1 mutliclass, 1 invocation, no resources ...

and it's around 360 meters - that's length you can see in the wide country or sky, and with spellsniper you have no limitation by length an ignore 3/4 cover. Just depend on what adventure you play.

 

[clearstream]

Maybe I misunderstood.

One case brought up was using EB with repelling to move a tanky guy out of the way so melee strikers could approach a non-tanky ranged guy.

Moving a tanky guy 10' should be sufficient to open that gap. You dont need to move folks 30' or so yo open a gap for melee guys. Hevh, all you really need is any number of ways to must step to bypass the whole problem and thst kicks in by late tier-1 to mid-trir-2 but for the case isnt 10 enough batting helpful terrain?

So it wont help to limit it to 10', at least not as a rule. Its possible of voursecfor that rule change plus certain terrain features to do so, just like its possible for terrain alone to do so.

That's what I thought. It does help to limit it to 10'.

Are you supposing that the positioning is crucial down to the 5' square, like in a phalanx, and that the turn order is neatly set up so that the warlock shove comes before the relevant ally, but after the NPC tank? I don't recall hitting that sort of exacting set up in play.

 

[5ekyu]

That's what I thought. It does help to limit it to 10'.

Are you supposing that the positioning is crucial down to the 5' square, like in a phalanx, and that the turn order is neatly set up so that the warlock shove comes before the relevant ally, but after the NPC tank? I don't recall hitting that sort of exacting set up in play.

Nope I am presuming a variety of cases where initiative would work out - because obviously, the tactic would not be used in specifics where it would not work. Other options would be chosen.

But, simply put, the use case still exists. Sounds like you are accounting for only cases where 10' wont work but some higher distance would, which, given 5e rules, is a subset - maybe small, maybe large - depending on table and norms.

But once we start sorting by favorable circumstances and terrain, it might not be an issue at all.

But as always, if st your table the big problem is movement more than 10' situations specifically... if that narrow a case would solve all the issues that is just incredible!!!

It just seems a much more narrow problem that I had thought was being described.

 

[clearstream]

Nope I am presuming a variety of cases where initiative would work out - because obviously, the tactic would not be used in specifics where it would not work. Other options would be chosen.

So, okay, you are characterising the cases to support your argument and everyone does that. I think saying that a case is more specific ("specifics where it would not work") entails that initiative orders that would work out are more common than those that would not work out.

My experience from play is at odds with that claim and I think it is easy to see why. For the claim to be true the warlock goes before the ally AND the ally goes before the foe. Label them 0 (warlock), 1 (ally), and 2 (foe). Treat initiative as modular.

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There are three cases fitting the claim.

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There are three cases contradicting the claim: neither order is more specific.

Once the other requirements are layered on, cases where the cantrip remains problematic (after the change) are many times more specific than cases where it does not. And that chimes with what I found in play at the table over a great many encounters. Perhaps reducing to 10' allows the tactic to still be used in the narrow case you describe: for me, an ability that very rarely causes a problem is non-egregious compared with one that very often causes a problem.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

1 feat, 1 mutliclass, 1 invocation, no resources …

Nope, this was multiclassed to sorcerer and using distant spell.

And, whist Eldritch Spear is one invocation, Repelling Blast and Agonising Blast are also required to make it work.

and it's around 360 meters - that's length you can see in the wide country or sky, and with spellsniper you have no limitation by length an ignore 3/4 cover. Just depend on what adventure you play.

I don't think I've ever had an encounter in "wide country". Most encounters take place in gloomy dungeons where most characters can see around 60 feet.

I've always felt that Spell Sniper and Eldritch Spear where things that sounded good but where of no practical use.

 

[clearstream]

I've always felt that Spell Sniper and Eldritch Spear where things that sounded good but where of no practical use.

Yup, they are kind of contextual. I had an encounter in a Colosseum sort of setup where spear shone, and one or two other cases, but as you say not much practical use in gloomy dungeons. Potentially reasonable in an urban campaign, when outdoor (say on rooftops).

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I would say that an urban campaign is the last place long range spells are useful, even on rooftops, which tend to be on lots of different levels and have lots of cover like chimneys, turrets, gables, etc.

 

[delph]

Yup, they are kind of contextual. I had an encounter in a Colosseum sort of setup where spear shone, and one or two other cases, but as you say not much practical use in gloomy dungeons. Potentially reasonable in an urban campaign, when outdoor (say on rooftops).

I would say that an urban campaign is the last place long range spells are useful, even on rooftops, which tend to be on lots of different levels and have lots of cover like chimneys, turrets, gables, etc.

And that's it - I have mentioned this option because someone wrote: "crossbow have bigger range" or something like this.

And in one campaign our warlock has an eldritch spear and fly... go above the battlefield , higher than range of enemies and shoot them, all...

for some place and settings are some spell very useful or useles.

 

[Salthorae]

I find Spell Sniper, EB with either Repelling Blast or Eldritch Blast and Eldritch Spear, are most effective on NPC's that I throw at my party from time to time in urban settings.

You know, with Hex up, and the Warlock getting paid to take out the party or people close to the party but they don't want to get close

Pull that princess off the balcony with the PC's standing next to her from 4 roofs away, kind of thing.

Otherwise, I've found the full combination is too much to expect or see much use on a PC. Unless THEY'RE getting paid to do that to people too

 

[clearstream]

I would say that an urban campaign is the last place long range spells are useful, even on rooftops, which tend to be on lots of different levels and have lots of cover like chimneys, turrets, gables, etc.

When I look at people's battle maps for Waterdeep, or think about the many encounters that took place in my OOTA campaign in mapped urban areas, the sight lines are frequently hundreds of feet long. Elevations and details of cover are not so well indicated, so a DM could have to make a ruling on those. Surprise attacks (ambushes on moving targets) are well enabled by the extra range. YMMV I guess.

EDIT as an afterthought, this seems to reveal how different our groups' approaches are! I think "range - great for urban rooftops" and you think "range - irrelevant for urban rooftops". Makes any eventual agreement on repelling blast unlikely...