D&D (2024) Interested in new dragon designs for 5e (5.5e or 6e)?

[dave2008]

So, in general, I really liked the Lockwood dragons when they first came out. But after being stuck with them for 3 editions I think they are a bit long in the tooth. In fact, I find most of the chromatic dragons that aren’t red a bit boring or annoying in some way or the other.

Now I realize WotC is not going to redesign the dragons midway into and edit on; however, with the rumors of dragonlance coming down the pipe, I can but wonder if we could get new designs, just like DL did back in the day.

So is that something others would be interested in? If so, what would you change, while keeping the iconic color schemes and breath weapons? What should stay and what should go?

EDIT:
OK, now for some examples of possibilities:
Red Dragons:

I really like the current red dragon, but I think it would cool to go back to the longwyrm roots of JRRT. Shorter neck, larger head, long muscular body and really long tail (note the model obviously doesn't have that) A combination of the first image and the last two are what I am looking for (but with a longer tail).

Blue Dragons:

For the blue I am think something with oversized (relatively) wings. I think making it more of a sky / storm dragon makes sense. I would keep the distinctive nose horn too.
Green Dragons:

I think a more forest approach or possibly take the green in a neo-spinosaurs vibe.

Find this image which was pretty much already doing what I suggested above, a dragonized spinosaurid!

Black Dragons:

Thank for @Ancalagon for providing a link to this image. This is close to what I would like to see a black dragon redesigned: more serpentine, able to glide through swamps, blending in with the dark waters. However, I would keep the forward point horns and wings, though I think the wings would need a redesing. Maybe they are held close to the body then spring out when needed - like the big dragon from How to Train Your Dragon.

Not the lava, but I think this combined with image above could make a quality black dragon.

White Dragons:

I would make the color more white, but the over brutish design I like. Probably with a shorter neck, bigger head. and longer "furry" tail. Something between the above and this "arctic dragon:"

 

[aco175]

The red dragon always looked more iconic and 'right' to me as well. The others were meh. It is not at the toip of my list for them to redesign though. I would not mind only one type of dragon and an evolution process where they gained power and abilities. This way they all could be dangerous and might help you, but most people would not chance it. I tend to think they have a different way of thinking and have their own plans which could include you, but you are mostly ants to them.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

IMO, the breaths and color categories should be the first thing to go.
I would love to have a bunch of dragon species for defined my habitat, like in How to Train your Dragon, than a color scheme.

But: all dragons, even young ones should be spellcasters and fearsome foes to even the more hardy adventurers.

I'm a big fan of Dungeon World 16 HP dragon (A 16 HP Dragon | LaTorra.org): the dragon is a multi-part encounter in itself more than a bag of HP. You know of the Complex Traps from Xanathar are designed? With Active, Dynamic and Constant elements, with a list of possible counter-measures for the party to use beyond just wacking at it? I believe dragon encounters should be designed the same way instead of as a creature with a statblock.

 

[dave2008]

IMO, the breaths and color categories should be the first thing to go.
I would love to have a bunch of dragon species for defined my habitat, like in How to Train your Dragon, than a color scheme.

I think you could keep the breath and color standard and add more interesting environmentally influenced attributes without much difficulty. I also adding a generalist dragon is a good idea, but I am specifically interested in the iconic D&D dragons for this discussion.

But: all dragons, even young ones should be spellcasters and fearsome foes to even the more hardy adventurers.

Interesting, I dont't think I typically add spellcasting to young dragons, but I could see that working. However, I don't necessarily think young dragons need to be fearsome for a group of adventurers.

I'm a big fan of Dungeon World 16 HP dragon (A 16 HP Dragon | LaTorra.org): the dragon is a multi-part encounter in itself more than a bag of HP. You know of the Complex Traps from Xanathar are designed? With Active, Dynamic and Constant elements, with a list of possible counter-measures for the party to use beyond just wacking at it? I believe dragon encounters should be designed the same way instead of as a creature with a statblock.

Well, I wasn't really wanting to discuss the mechanical design, just the artistic design. That being said, i think they started to make moves that way with lair actions and regional effects. I definitely like the idea, but I would necessarily want every dragon to be designed that way.

 

[DWChancellor]

Honestly couldn't disagree more. I like the Lockwood dragons are head and shoulders better than nearly anything before or since. I mean, come on, the nasty skull-like blacks, the wicked blues, the dumb brutal whites...

That said, there is some room to improve. The green dragon stands out as, well, not standing out at all. The metallics are beautiful but hard to remember past the gold and silver.

What grips me about Lockwood's design was the naturalism of it. They felt like real, dangerous predators. Not flying blobs with claws and wings glued on or nests of ridiculous horns and teeth. The catlike grace and build, with a lightness that spoke more of a flying creature than the heavyset dragons so many other artists painted.

Mechanically I think there is a lot of room to expand the dragons' too, but I heard you wanted to discuss the art =)

Can you post an example of a dragon you like "better" than Lockwoods? I just pulled my PF bestiary and opened it to find a heap of generic, undistinguished, utterly boring dragons. No help there.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Artistically, I'd remove the wings from the black, blue and whites, making them ''land wyrms'' but with superior mobility features:
- The blues keep the awesome nose horn and gain a new pair of legs, a little like the behir, with an improved burrow and climb speed. Remove the storm breath and change it to something a little more ''desert'' themed, like a gas breath that transform the victims in glass statues.

- The whites are based on the arctic killer whales. They can breath for some time underwater, climb and walk easily on ice. They have some fur and overly large claws. They have a heat breath (fire damage overtime), used to shape their lairs.

-Blacks are amphibians: they can breath normally underwater. They dont have horns per se, but their bodies are covered in coral-like formations used like an armor and their heads are adorned by a lamp-like antenna use to lure prey while in dark waters . They have no forelegs but a bunch of little legs, like a centipede, are found at the rear of their bodies (a little like the 5e remorhaz)

 

[dave2008]

Honestly couldn't disagree more. I like the Lockwood dragons are head and shoulders better than nearly anything before or since. I mean, come on, the nasty skull-like blacks, the wicked blues, the dumb brutal whites...

That said, there is some room to improve. The green dragon stands out as, well, not standing out at all. The metallics are beautiful but hard to remember past the gold and silver.

What grips me about Lockwood's design was the naturalism of it. They felt like real, dangerous predators. Not flying blobs with claws and wings glued on or nests of ridiculous horns and teeth. The catlike grace and build, with a lightness that spoke more of a flying creature than the heavyset dragons so many other artists painted.

Mechanically I think there is a lot of room to expand the dragons' too, but I heard you wanted to discuss the art =)

Can you post an example of a dragon you like "better" than Lockwoods? I just pulled my PF bestiary and opened it to find a heap of generic, undistinguished, utterly boring dragons. No help there.

1. I completely agree with you in the PF versions, not really improvements IMO.
2. I don’t have any preconceived idea about a redesign. I did like the brute red dragon they showed during the Next play test though.
3. I’m personally tired of the skull like heads of the black, blue, and white dragons.
4. I think the body types are too similar for the different roles and environments they occupy.

 

[dave2008]

Artistically, I'd remove the wings from the black, blue and whites, making them ''land wyrms'' but with superior mobility features:
- The blues keep the awesome nose horn and gain a new pair of legs, a little like the behir, with an improved burrow and climb speed. Remove the storm breath and change it to something a little more ''desert'' themed, like a gas breath that transform the victims in glass statues.

- The whites are based on the arctic killer whales. They can breath for some time underwater, climb and walk easily on ice. They have some fur and overly large claws. They have a heat breath (fire damage overtime), used to shape their lairs.

-Blacks are amphibians: they can breath normally underwater. They dont have horns per se, but their bodies are covered in coral-like formations used like an armor and their heads are adorned by a lamp-like antenna use to lure prey while in dark waters . They have no forelegs but a bunch of little legs, like a centipede, are found at the rear of their bodies (a little like the 5e remorhaz) View attachment 114493

Interesting ideas, can’t really reply well on my phone. I will follow up when I get back to a computer.

 

[dave2008]

Artistically, I'd remove the wings from the black, blue and whites, making them ''land wyrms'' but with superior mobility features:

Not for me, I would keep land wyrms as a distinct type of dragon and keep the 5 chromatic as flying beasts.

- The blues keep the awesome nose horn and gain a new pair of legs, a little like the behir, with an improved burrow and climb speed. Remove the storm breath and change it to something a little more ''desert'' themed, like a gas breath that transform the victims in glass statues.

Interesting, but I would go the other way. Make them really stormy. Give them the biggest wings and make them the best flyers. Sight build (comparatively) but agile. Make them masters of the sky, not the desert.

- The whites are based on the arctic killer whales. They can breath for some time underwater, climb and walk easily on ice. They have some fur and overly large claws. They have a heat breath (fire damage overtime), used to shape their lairs.

I can get behind most of that. I don't know that I want hair on my dragon, but I'm not saying no until I see it. I don't know about heat breath, but there is definitely some logic to it. Maybe the can manipulate the temperature, hot or cold.

-Blacks are amphibians: they can breath normally underwater. They dont have horns per se, but their bodies are covered in coral-like formations used like an armor and their heads are adorned by a lamp-like antenna use to lure prey while in dark waters . They have no forelegs but a bunch of little legs, like a centipede, are found at the rear of their bodies (a little like the 5e remorhaz)

I don't like the centipede idea, but I can get behind them being more swampy. I typically want them to have a more snake like build. I have also thought of them a dragon versions of sauropods before.

 

[dave2008]

I am adding some pictures of ideas in the OP