D&D General Dragon Spells?

[ezo]

How do you determine what spells a dragon knows?

For instance, in prior editions random selection was the way, but now a more cultivated approach seems to be the way.

I ask as I ponder a dragon my party might face tonight, an adult black dragon. It will have 3 spells up to 4th level. Picking them myself seems almost unfair, as certain spells would incredibly increase its lethality. Rolling them at random often results in too many which are blantantly useless.

EDIT: Also, at what level to you have dragons cast spells at? I am thinking of treating them like Warlocks, so the above adult black dragon would cast its three spells at 4th spell level.

 

[Stormonu]

Back in 1E, I used a random method. Ever since 2E, I selected them with an eye towards not just what would help specifically against PCs, but what would be beneficial (and thematic) for the dragon.

Generally, for each spell level I choose 1 Offensive, 1 Defensive and 1 Utility spell per level. If they would know more than that for a level I usually choose a Utility (more likely) or Offensive spell. Also, I usually start from the highest level spell and work downwards, as the higher level spells tend to get used first and I expect they'd have the "better" version than the lower level version where applicable - I'd assume a Dragon would have Improved Invisibility over Invisibility, for example.

 

[dave2008]

How do you determine what spells a dragon knows?

For instance, in prior editions random selection was the way, but now a more cultivated approach seems to be the way.

I ask as I ponder a dragon my party might face tonight, an adult black dragon. It will have 3 spells up to 4th level. Picking them myself seems almost unfair, as certain spells would incredibly increase its lethality. Rolling them at random often results in too many which are blantantly useless.

You can always not pick the most powerful spells?! What I sometimes do is limit them to spells that fit their theme (acid, darkness, necrotic, etc. for black dragons. You could also just use the spell lists in Fizban's. Here is the adult black dragon list:

Black Dragon Spellcasting​

Age	Spell Save DC	Spells Known
Young	13	blindness/deafness, create or destroy water
Adult	16	blindness/deafness, create or destroy water, plant growth
Ancient	19	blindness/deafness, create or destroy water, insect plague, plant growth

 

[tetrasodium]

How do you determine what spells a dragon knows?

For instance, in prior editions random selection was the way, but now a more cultivated approach seems to be the way.

I ask as I ponder a dragon my party might face tonight, an adult black dragon. It will have 3 spells up to 4th level. Picking them myself seems almost unfair, as certain spells would incredibly increase its lethality. Rolling them at random often results in too many which are blantantly useless.

I run most of my games in eberron. Dragons are either in their rebellious teenager phase and treated accordingly or they are basically gods & have whatever spells make sense for that dragon to have (even when said spell is from past editions or is created whole cloth). I also sometimes use the epic level spell section from the 3.x ELH as vague inspiration & guidance.

 

[ezo]

You can always not pick the most powerful spells?!

Honestly, I go back and forth on this. PCs pick from the entire spell list, so it seems only "fair" that creatures can do the same. But given that as DM I "set up" the encounter / scene and know what spells can be most useful, it hardly seems "fair" in that respect.

What I sometimes do is limit them to spells that fit their theme (acid, darkness, necrotic, etc. for black dragons.

I agree with this, certainly!

You could also just use the spell lists in Fizban's. Here is the adult black dragon list:

Interesting, but these seem almost useless to a dragon.

 

[aco175]

If I was a dragon, I would want spells that help me survive and counter what others would come at me with. If I'm a black dragon for instance, I would think the PCs might be protected from acid so I could use a spell that changes my breath weapon attack to lightning, or at least a counterspell that negates the PC's protection.

How about powers that change the breath weapon by taking away some of the dice, a bit like the new rogue that can trip you by doing 1 die less sneak attack.

 

[dave2008]

I agree with this, certainly!

I treat dragon magic as an extension of a dragon's innate magical nature. "Spells" are more about constructing a theme than best combat options. The dragon doesn't research these in libraries, it is just an expression of their magical nature like flight and their breath weapon. Most spells simply can't compete with a dragon's natural attacks (on a DPR basis). So just go with what makes sense to you.

 

[ezo]

Most spells simply can't compete with a dragon's natural attacks (on a DPR basis)

Sure, but many spells like Greater Invisibility can greatly increase their power compared to the PCs...

 

[dave2008]

Sure, but many spells like Greater Invisibility can greatly increase their power compared to the PCs...

Sure, but for me, that doesn't fit a dragon's theme. So I wouldn't pick that one. If it does for you, and you want to give the dragon Greater Invisibility - increase the dragon's CR. It is effectively a +2 to CR IIRC

 

[DragonLancer]

I decide what spells I want the dragon to have based on it's colour, alignment, personality and other adventure or campaign specific requirements.