D&D 5E Dungeons and Dragons (5th Edition) Class Tier List – 2019

[DND_Reborn]

I thought about swords, but I am debating because of the shield proficiency in valor...

Also, I find it very wrong still that Rogue have no subclasses with Extra Attack, yet Bard has two of them now.

 

[Mort]

I'm sure it is more a preference of play-style. I don't mind support characters, but not when that is their primary function. Bardic inspiration is pretty much all about others and supporting them. No thanks. I like a lot of other things about bards such as Jack of all Trades and Expertise, spells and magical secrets. Remove all the stuff about inspiration and song/music, add other features instead, and the class would be great. I'd much rather see bards as weaker but more universal in their skills--think not as good at fighting as fighters, access to ALL spells, but not that many of them, versatile with skills but maybe not as good as the "skill monkey" rogue. Better yet, remove rogue as the skill monkey and give THAT to bards.

Well yes, if you don't like support classes you won't like the bard - seeing as that's its primary function.

That's very different from the class, or its features, being weak!

 

[DND_Reborn]

One of my players has been playing a bard for going on three years, and Bardic Inspiration has saved the party's ass on many occasions. However, I will state that Valor bard is kind of suck. That's why there's the College of Swords now!

Also, can you provide an example of how it saved the party's ass once?

 

[Blue]

My experience is the same as @Zardnaar . Bards, particularly lore bards, are an amazing support class.

Very surprised you see bardic inspiration as useless. Every time I've seen a bard in play (both in AL and in the home game I DM) it's been extraordinarily useful.

I'm with you. I can't imaging how he doesn't like Bardic Inspiration - it's just about one of the only non-concentration buff in 5e. They have a great spell list, especially around crowd control. Plus hands down fantastic in social situation, and a skill monkey between expertise and jack of all trades.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Well yes, if you don't like support classes you won't like the bard - seeing as that's it's primary function.

That's very different from the class, or its features, being weak!

True, perhaps I was too general in my initial statement. I don't think Bards themselves are weak, only that bardic inspiration and some of their other features are. But, experiences differ and I am okay with that. I certainly wouldn't recommend the Bard as is for many players. Twice in our group people have started with a bard, only to change their class within a couple sessions finding the class lackluster and boring.

Which is why I am considering playing one. I am hoping to find some glimmer of light others have missed.

 

[Zardnaar]

Lore bard makes a decent blaster as well it's just got at support. Each bard dice on a lore bard is similar in effect to a shield spell.

With feats they can pick up Eldritch blast and steal hunters query and fireball level 6.

They can also be damn good at healing stealing healing spirit.

Valor bards a bit pants even with high rolled scores.

 

[Blue]

I thought about swords, but I am debating because of the shield proficiency in valor...

Also, I find it very wrong still that Rogue have no subclasses with Extra Attack, yet Bard has two of them now.

Umm, because they have different methods of doing damage? Different methods to get to the same result is a good thing, otherwise the classes all feel the same.

Bards that use weapons keep up damage over increasing levels with an extra attack.

Rogues keep up damage over increasing levels with more sneak attack. Adding extra attack - which makes sneak attack a lot more reliable - would make them over-damage their design point and would need to reduce SA to bring them back in line.

 

[Gladius Legis]

Also, I find it very wrong still that Rogue have no subclasses with Extra Attack, yet Bard has two of them now.

Because Extra Attack would be blatantly overpowered on a Rogue.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Umm, because they have different methods of doing damage? Different methods to get to the same result is a good thing, otherwise the classes all feel the same.

Bards that use weapons keep up damage over increasing levels with an extra attack.

Rogues keep up damage over increasing levels with more sneak attack. Adding extra attack - which makes sneak attack a lot more reliable - would make them over-damage their design point and would need to reduce SA to bring them back in line.

Because Extra Attack would be blatantly overpowered on a Rogue.

Yeah, I've already gone over all this in another thread so you don't need to keep telling me how awesome it would make SA and rogues. I disagree and we can leave it at that.

 

[Blue]

Also, can you provide an example of how it saved the party's ass once?

Not the person you were asking, but from my own experiences:

One campaign that I played in the bard regularly made the GWM paladin turn misses into hits with the -5/+10. Bardic Inspiration was given to the rogue before disarming traps, or any other critical skill check people had to make. (Plus guidance from the cleric.) Especially things like when everyone was trying to sneak or climb, giving it to the people most likely fail allowed the whole group to succeed.

Currently playing a glamour bard at 8th. Their subclass Bardic Inspiration gives out a temp HPs to a bunch of people plus lets them use their reaction to OA-free take a move action. Getting hurt characters out of melee, getting melee characters into the right spots, and splitting up the party when there's AoEs going off. Likely saved the party once when attacked by a dragon and let everyone scatter first round before it's breath weapon caught the whole party.

I also toss one out every round to someone in my party (not using my bonus action for anything else usually) when fighting casters so they can use it to juice a failing save. (Or make the hit, or whatever.) They all come back on a short rest, better to use them. (Before 5th when they only came back on a long rest I was less carefree with giving them out.)