D&D 5E Revised Phoenix Sorcerer

[Hawk Diesel]

Each one individually is one thing, though I'm not sure about the damage shield, but the three together is completely overpowered. The damage shield is particularly problematic in that it provides complete immunity from insects.

But how? Light is a cantrip. It's a ribbon ability at best, and under certain circumstances can make the character or party a target, since it would hinder stealth. The damage extra damage is neglible until higher levels, and again is a highly resisted damage type. And I don't get the point about insects. How does it make the sorcerer immune to them? And again, the minor fire shield effect is not really ideal, because sorcerers typically don't wanna be anywhere near melee range.

Is this really more powerful than the at will advantage of a wild mage sorcerer? Or a darkness sorcerer's 120ft division, which effectively makes them invisible while in darkness for any creature that relies on sight (as well as making them ideal scouts to warn the party of oncoming danger in the dark before the danger can spot them)?

Actually, that makes it worse. But your taking damage is not a limitation. And at 14th level you have Phoenix Spark anyway.

How is taking damage not a limitation? And why is it bad if the abilities have synergy? Additionally, Phoenix Spark requires additional resource expenditure. Hit dice don't automatically fully recharge on a long rest, meaning it does require determining if you wanna spend it all and have fewer hit dice the next day, or just enough to recover them all or have some left for a particularly difficult adventuring day. Without spending hit dice, this is no different than a half-orc's relentless endurance or shadow sorcerer's strength of the grave, except those examples get the ability at level 1 versus level 14 for the Phoenix Sorcerer.

I do like @Salthorae's suggestion, though maybe instead I'd limit Nourishing Flame to maybe reducing the cost of the metamagic used by 2.

 

[Quartz]

The damage extra damage is neglible until higher levels, and again is a highly resisted damage type.

Actually, no the damage is not negligible. Circumstantially it's very powerful. It's enough to completely negate a (3.xE) Creeping Doom spell, for instance, right from the get-go.

It's your game, so try them out and report back. My view is that the power set is hugely overpowered.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

Actually, no the damage is not negligible. Circumstantially it's very powerful. It's enough to completely negate a (3.xE) Creeping Doom spell, for instance, right from the get-go.

It's your game, so try them out and report back. My view is that the power set is hugely overpowered.

Actually, that's fair. It's not neglible. But it's also meant to be the main aspect of the ability. The light effect is a ribbon in my view, and the minor fire shield is a slight defensive measure for the rare occasion the sorcerer gets into melee range.

But I don't understand the comparison of a 3.5 mechanic with a 5e mechanic. Outside of rage, which has already been mentioned, are there other 5e mechanics that can serve as points of comparison? I typically find it helpful to find similar mechanics elsewhere in 5e that can serve as guides to determine appropriate balance points.

 

[Salthorae]

I’d say the biggest point would be this Sorcerer with their 1st level ability to deal retributive Fire damage and bonus fire damage would solo a swarm in under 3 rounds.

That seems pretty good vs a melee character would take probably 4-5 rounds with average damage. That is a big difference with 1st level hit points.

Dunno. It’s not a huge thing but it is a point of comparison.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

Ok, I adjusted Mantle of Flame to require a reaction to deal the fire damage. I also added that using sorcery points could increase the damage dealt for 1 minute, rather than an automatic increase.

I also took out the protection factor of nourishing flame, but decided to keep the next metamagic effect free, rather than reducing the cost by 2.

 

[Shardstone]

Actually, no the damage is not negligible. Circumstantially it's very powerful. It's enough to completely negate a (3.xE) Creeping Doom spell, for instance, right from the get-go.

It's your game, so try them out and report back. My view is that the power set is hugely overpowered.

Why in the world would you use a 3.xE EDITION SPELL to judge the balance of a 5E sub-class??

 

[cbwjm]

I disagree with needing a reaction to use the mantle of flame damage and think you could keep it like fire shield and have it deal damage to anyone who hits you if they are within 5ft of you, or make it act similar to the Scourge (I think) aasimar that deals damage in a radius at the start of your turn. How many uses does the sorcerer get of mantle of flame? That might be the better balance point of the ability. Perhaps 1 free use/SR and then when they gain sorcery points the ability to expend them for additional uses. Otherwise the standard 2/SR would be how I would limit it. That way, it amps up the sorcerer but makes them consider if/when they should use it.

 

[Quartz]

Why in the world would you use a 3.xE EDITION SPELL to judge the balance of a 5E sub-class??

Because it was what came to mind as an extreme example.

you could keep it like fire shield

That's a much higher level ability - Fire Shield is a 4th level spell.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

That's a much higher level ability - Fire Shield is a 4th level spell.

While Fire Shield is an apt comparison to the Mantle of Flame ability, it is also unfair to state it is in the same level of power as that spell. Firstly, when you use the spell you can choose whether it is based around fire or cold. It grants resistance to the chosen energy type (something Mantle of Flame does not grant), and it deals 2d8 damage anytime the caster is struck by melee damage. That's an average of 9 damage with a range of 2-16 damage.

Are there similarities? Sure. But just because there are similarities does not mean that Mantle of Flame is equivalent to a 4th level spell.

Besides, let's compare official content, shall we?

A shadow sorcerer from XGtE gets 120' darkvision at first level. That is a permanent darkvision effect (2nd level spell) but at double the range. That would mean at 1st level, the shadow sorcerer gets a permanent 3-4th level spell, in addition to their Strength of the Grave ability. In fact, in darkness against enemies more than 60' away, it is circumstantially equivalent to greater invisibility, which is a 4th level spell.

Spells can be fantastic means for comparing new mechanics of a given level. But when creating mechanics for new classes or ararchetypes in my experience it is more helpful in general to compare to other class or archetype mechanics.

 

[Quartz]

Are there similarities? Sure. But just because there are similarities does not mean that Mantle of Flame is equivalent to a 4th level spell.

Oh I agree. That's why I pointed out the high level of Fire Shield.

A shadow sorcerer from XGtE gets 120' darkvision at first level.

Aggressive powers like Mantle of Flame need a much more careful watch than non-aggressive powers like Darkvision.