The physics of giants doesn't make any sense either, they would collapse in upon themselves due to their own weight. There are plenty of stories of warriors slaying the dragon or giant.
I want to play Beowulf, not Superman.
Oh as far as that goes the brawling fighter seemed pretty awesome ... it wasnt a yank your arms off style build thoughGrappling is pretty weak in 4E, and powerful wrestlers are a pretty common trope.
Even Beowulf performed superhuman acts of feats that would make a fighter blush.
"There are additional examples of the use of fantastic elements in Beowulf. Beowulf single-handedly carrier thirty suits of armor from the battlefield in Frisnia and swims with them through the North Sea and the Skagerrak to Geatland, a distance of five hundred miles (120). In Beowulf’s early life, he swam for five to seven days with his companion Breca, killing sea monsters by night. During his swim match with Breca, Beowulf dressed in full armor, was attacked by nine sea monsters and killed them all."
I even remember his fight with Grendel's mother, where he swam into an underwater cave and fought her for hours without going back up for breath.
It just strains credulity for me to have your everyman fighter going with a mythical wizard to other-worldly planes to fight yacht sized dragons, and teleporting demon pit lords that can peel open plate armor like a sardine can. High level D&D sort of funnels you into the these conflicts, so keeping the game grounded is hard when wizards can willingly transport the entire party to other planes once per day. By then, your casters are driving adventures, and your fighter is good at swinging his weapon like a wiffle bat.
Just boggles my mind that people don't see the conflict inherent in that. Either make casting more difficult and fraught with danger, or make fighters more fantastical.
That logic is the literal definition of a logical fallacy lol. So maybe not the best thing to base an argument onThat is not the argument.
The argument is this:
- If Fighters can do thing x, then it stands to reason that they can do thing y and thing z.
- If they can do thing y and thing z, then it stands to reason that they can do thing a and thing b.
- If they can do thing a and thing b, then it stands to reason that they can do thing c and thing d.
- If Fighters can do things y, z, a, b, c, and d, the game would scale more desirably from mid levels onward and play more desirably at endgame (both in the experience of GMing games and in playing them).
There were two huge complaints about 4e:
1. It felt like a tactical board game
2. Everyone had powerz
As someone who skipped 4e for those reasons, and plays with others who also don’t like 4e, I am pretty familiar with what people complained about about the game. I’m guessing fans of 4e didn’t spend that much time around people who didn’t, so your exposure to how people felt who weren’t fans is limited.
And I’m not being dramatic. It’s unheard of that DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS would lose its spot as the #1 TTRPG. 4e fell flat, from a business perspective. That’s not being dramatic, that’s objective truth. And it split the gaming base up worse than any other edition, largely for the reasons I just gave above. Just look at 5e, which retreated from those two things, and how well it’s doing in the market now.
So no, DnD can’t afford to go back to one of the top complaints of 4e design.
That sounds like the Paul Bunyan version of the Beowulf legend, not the one I remember reading. Of course that was a long time ago.Even Beowulf performed superhuman acts of feats that would make a fighter blush.
"There are additional examples of the use of fantastic elements in Beowulf. Beowulf single-handedly carrier thirty suits of armor from the battlefield in Frisnia and swims with them through the North Sea and the Skagerrak to Geatland, a distance of five hundred miles (120). In Beowulf’s early life, he swam for five to seven days with his companion Breca, killing sea monsters by night. During his swim match with Breca, Beowulf dressed in full armor, was attacked by nine sea monsters and killed them all."
I even remember his fight with Grendel's mother, where he swam into an underwater cave and fought her for hours without going back up for breath.
It just strains credulity for me to have your everyman fighter going with a mythical wizard to other-worldly planes to fight yacht sized dragons, and teleporting demon pit lords that can peel open plate armor like a sardine can. High level D&D sort of funnels you into the these conflicts, so keeping the game grounded is hard when wizards can willingly transport the entire party to other planes once per day. By then, your casters are driving adventures, and your fighter is good at swinging his weapon like a wiffle bat.
Just boggles my mind that people don't see the conflict inherent in that. Either make casting more difficult and fraught with danger, or make fighters more fantastical.
I was going to sarcastically suggest one build him as an eldritch knight since you can only do the impossible with magic after all.I even remember his fight with Grendel's mother, where he swam into an underwater cave and fought her for hours without going back up for breath.
I usually say house sized... it allows for variations that way... my house vs Gates house vs one of those Preachers who buy themselves Jets houses.@Condiments
I was with you there until you said “yacht-sized dragons.”
Sub that for “DC9 sized dragons” and we’re on the same page!