D&D General Compelling and Differentiated Gameplay For Spellcasters and Martial Classes

[Garthanos]

Well that's because none of that counts...

Or the first statement is just plain mistaken?

 

[Sacrosanct]

I think it very much is the point... just as jumping 10 feet is typical for very normal people . The STR number isnt really used except for your bland as hell "I hit it with my sword" oh my how many percent more on to hit ??? = Where as that that wrestling him to the ground could be awesome WHICH is exactly why you said it that way.

I listed several things. That was just one of them. And strength checks/challenges can come up often, so if a fighter is stronger than a dinosaur, that impacts checks because the fighter's modifiers are higher. And not just dinosaur (don't get hung up on that), but any creature that a normal person would have no chance against winning a strength contest against.

So no, that isn't the point. Because you're ignoring everything else I listed that already gives the fighter superhuman abilties.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Well that's because none of that counts... they have to be heroic in the specific way that a specific poster wants them to be otherwise they're not heroic...

It seems that way. I mean every time we have this topic, it's "fighters aren't heroic because they can't do x, y or z that this other class can." Which is responded with, "what about all these other things they can do that are heroic and no other normal person can do." which is followed by completely ignoring that list.

 

[Garthanos]

I listed several things. That was just one of them.

Several you said he has high hit points... oooooh that now counts as several. Boring passive;.

And strength checks/challenges can come up often, so if a fighter is stronger than a dinosaur

LOL so is every football player on the minor league and pro league foot ball apparently
those number are very very small amount more the 10 strength guy can roll higher with shear luck many many times...

The system makes sure the implications of this high strength is incredibly mundane wrt anything but killing something

 

[Manbearcat]

If I have the supernatural explosive power required to swing a weapon and cleave through Ancient Dragon scales, is it reasonable to assume that I possess the supernatural explosive power to debond mortar and stone with a powerful shove, compromise its structural integrity, and topple it?

If I posses the supernatural quickness/full body coordination and explosive power required to evade an Elder Air Elemental’s blow, is it reasonable to assume that I can surf down an avalanche on a shield?

If the above two things are true, and I can be completely unmoved and unharmed by a Storm Giant’s mightiest blow against my armor, is it reasonable to assume I have the requisite musculoskeletal composition and supernatural strength required to grab a small section of fieldstone wall, uproot it, plant it nearby in a narrow gap, and bulwark the wall with my form (until my allies can get stuff to reinforce it) to prevent the flooding of a village?

Without having actual empirical evidence to rely upon and without doing speculative energy calculations, is that chain “a complete logical fallacy?”

 

[Sacrosanct]

Several you said he has high hit points... oooooh that now counts as several. Boring passive;.


LOL so is every football player on the minor league and pro league foot ball apparently
those number are very very small amount more the 10 strength guy can roll higher with shear luck many many times...

Give me one football player who can do any of the things I listed. Just one. I don't know why you keep brinign them up when they can't do what a fighter can. Survivability is a one of the things of the fighter (not just HP, but superhuman feats of constitution and endurance). One that you seem to continue to ignore.

At this point, I don't....no..nevermind. Clearly you don't want to talk about this honestly, so I'll just bid you a good day.

 

[Garthanos]

If I have the supernatural explosive power required to swing a weapon and cleave through Ancient Dragon scales, is it reasonable to assume that I possess the supernatural explosive power to debond mortar and stone with a powerful shove, compromise its structural integrity, and topple it?

If I posses the supernatural quickness/full body coordination and explosive power required to evade an Elder Air Elemental’s blow, is it reasonable to assume that I can surf down an avalanche on a shield?

If the above two things are true, and I can be completely unmoved and unharmed by a Storm Giant’s mightiest blow against my armor, is it reasonable to assume I have the requisite musculoskeletal composition and supernatural strength required to grab a small section of fieldstone wall, uproot it, plant it nearby in a narrow gap, and bulwark the wall with my form (until my allies can get stuff to reinforce it) to prevent the flooding of a village?

Without having actual empirical evidence to rely upon and without doing speculative energy calculations, is that chain “a complete logical fallacy?”

Tony is supposed to be here and mention that if those implications were actually considered then it would infringe on the supremacy of magic.

 

[Garthanos]

Give me one football player who can do any of the things I listed.

He can claim the 20 strength which is apparent "better" than that of a (greatly underestimated) dinosaur.

And for the fighter functionally not significantly better at high level than low level and which provides movement ability that is very very mundane.

 

[Sacrosanct]

He can claim the 20 strength which is apparent "better" than that of a (greatly underestimated) dinosaur.
And functionally not significantly better at high level than low level and which provides movement ability that is very very mundane.

No, he can't. 18 is the maximum normal attribute any "non hero (PC)" can get. The whole reason PCs get stat bonuses through their adventures is to make them, wait for it, extra heroic over everyone else.

 

[Garthanos]

No, he can't. 18 is the maximum normal attribute any "non hero (PC)" can get.

An average football player can jump 10 feet in a typical standing broad jump (actually I think the average is a few inches more). Its definitely an estimate but it corresponds to the jump the game gives characters of strength 20 without some form of intervention.