D&D General Compelling and Differentiated Gameplay For Spellcasters and Martial Classes

[Don Durito]

You need some such ability. Even if it only gets occasionally used - because:
-1) Always facing off against a similar number of at level opponents gets boring and sometimes high level characters need to show off what being high level potentially means.
-2) Sometimes a group of players decide to do something really stupid that you hadn't really considered, such as assassinating the Orc king in his command tent while surrounded by the orcish army.

 

[Garthanos]

Then, in 5e, BA made much lower-level foes credible, to the point of being very real threats - but /didn't/ give the fighter anything for carving through them.

I am actually less familiar with it than you are though at about level 5 it seems there might be comparable ability to deal with multiple enemies as a 4e level 1. (most every 4e fighter has some ability against 2 enemies and obviously rangers do) ... but it really kicks off a bit later when various other bursts or stances and the like kick in I suppose.

Edit: Decided my original response was needlessly sarcastic

 

[Garthanos]

Anyone have ideas not attack everything everywhere? LOL

So maybe I do think 5e could use significantly more of that.

 

[Garthanos]

But remember the thread isn't about 5e and how much it threw away.

 

[Garthanos]

[/QUOTE]

The ubermensch intimidation effect was in Chainmail... just saying.

@Manbearcat It occured to me that apex predator effect at least part of it where one terrorizes enemies could be a reflavored banishment ... Might as well pick a bloody potent magic.

Apex Predator Stare or Perhaps Strike : The enemy you focus your attention on and who fails a charisma save flees the battle (perhaps hanging out in the distance) If somebody hits you before one minutes up your awesome presence dims in the subjects eyes and the terrorized enemy comes straggling back. Ok it actually might come back at a different specific location and be visible sometimes while doing so and sometimes not making it less easy to gank or more dangerous after wards (So your allies atleast could also get parting shots as it flees madly making that less of a problem).

Say instead of a charisma save make it an attack roll where the attack has to succeed by an amount equal to the enemies wisdom mod - your charisma mod. So your attention is an awesome attack in the first place. (then its wild flight from the battle is a response to a very physical act)

Wait we do have a mild version of this ... menacing attack as a BM fighter move. Pump up its volume... by giving a duration that advances a lot not just a round but lasts until the hero is actually hit by an attack and might means some sort of indefinite psychosis if it lasts beyond the fight then allow it to affect multiple enemies... enemies affected who arent hit may retreat 10 feat too. Then hitting you becomes a needed and a difficult thing.
(perhaps if you are hit by 2 others the effect ends too)

One way of level gating better versions of BM abilities is to give them a clause saying forgo performing one of your multiple attacks or two of your attacks of your attack action and the subsequent Superiority die enhanced attack will have this uber effect ... For menacing attack it becomes Apex Predator Strike increase subjects affected by the fear by one enemy who sees the attack within 5 squares (plus 1 per 4 levels higher ) and increase the duration to be based on whether the subject has hit you with an attack (with other special ending clauses for vtude).

Adjust mildly to taste.
maybe too complicated but if one sets a precedent of enhancing every BM power... or changing martial resist from a separate resistance roll to an attack modifier this would in general be better differentiated and that is the actual thread direction.

Oh and no reason not to give martial type tricks where enemies are not going to fall for it twice, or ahem resist or counter it easily right along side of options or instead of short rest fatigue style effects.

 

[Garthanos]

Since we were discussing hitting all of the things everywhere. One could allow a cleave attack as a normal superiority die attack then turn it into a greater cleave or wild swing where you hit all enemies adjacent when you trigger it by forgoing 1 attack as part of its cost.... forgo another to making it a lunging flurry affecting enemies 5 foot more reach.

 

[Manbearcat]

@Garthanos

I’m inclined toward mechanics to support this archetypal ability that:

1) Low overhead and handling time.

2) Broad/open descriptor and (therefore) wife application for both combat and noncombat.

3) Player-facing and doesn’t require GM mediation (basically fiat)

This is why I like a simple reskinning of Portent. If throwing the Frightened tag on it is necessary (eg if you’re immune to Frightened it doesn’t work), then compensate it with something mild (like a use can also allow an ally a 15 ft move in combat without OA).

If this was Dungeon World, the move would just require a table-facing fictional trigger (therefore no real GM mediation).

 

[Nagol]

@Garthanos

I’m inclined toward mechanics to support this archetypal ability that:

1) Low overhead and handling time.

2) Broad/open descriptor and (therefore) wife application for both combat and noncombat.

3) Player-facing and doesn’t require GM mediation (basically fiat)

This is why I like a simple reskinning of Portent. If throwing the Frightened tag on it is necessary (eg if you’re immune to Frightened it doesn’t work), then compensate it with something mild (like a use can also allow an ally a 15 ft move in combat without OA).

If this was Dungeon World, the move would just require a table-facing fictional trigger (therefore no real GM mediation).

Wife application, you say! My wife won't run any untrusted apps, unfortunately.

 

[Manbearcat]

Lol the autocorrect monster strikes again!

I’m leaving it for humor’s sake.

Oh wait...less sinister than my shady phone...d is right next to f. That’s unfortunate. This could have been a fine piece of data for a Trolling AI Apocalypse.

 

[Nagol]

The thing I always find somewhat odd about all the times I've seen this discussion is there is little attempt to generate capability in those areas I see non-casters as sorely lacking: discovering things, surviving hostile environments, and long range mobility.

Adding combat depth is mostly pointless since every class has become combat competent. Combat breadth may feel neat, but won't generally change a failing situation into a successful one.