D&D 5E Ban Variant-Human! Impact?

[Ashrym]

But when you get reliable talent, that extra proficiency becomes worth even more!

It does, but it also depends on DM's allowing skill or tool proficiencies to be learned in downtime or not. I've seen enough DM's allow for that to marginalize bonus skill proficiencies.

Half-elf is a better alternative going rogue than the wood elf example. +2 CHA, +1 to 2 abilities, and 2 bonus skill proficiencies is a lot harder to pass up. The difference being downtime learning or not again.

 

[Ashrym]

Also you only need +1 with +4 proficiency to auto-succeed at DC 15 checks.

Sure, but that bonus also applies to saving throws and opposed checks, and gets to DC 20 auto-success sooner.

 

[Esker]

Half-elf is a better alternative going rogue than the wood elf example. +2 CHA, +1 to 2 abilities, and 2 bonus skill proficiencies is a lot harder to pass up. The difference being downtime learning or not again.

If you're using CHA skils, yes. You can start with 8, 16, 14, 12, 13, 14, take Observant at 4th, for example.

 

[Esker]

Sure, but that bonus also applies to saving throws and opposed checks, and gets to DC 20 auto-success sooner.

Ok, Goal-post move-y McGee...

You're only ever getting DC 20 auto-success in the skills you have expertise in. So if your expertise skills span three different non-DEX abilities, then for one of those, DC 20 checks will eventually be noticeably easier for the human. On the other hand, for the skill that the human doesn't have proficiency in, all DCs will be easier for the elf. For the entire campaign.

 

[Salthorae]

It does, but it also depends on DM's allowing skill or tool proficiencies to be learned in downtime or not. I've seen enough DM's allow for that to marginalize bonus skill proficiencies.

Half-elf is a better alternative going rogue than the wood elf example. +2 CHA, +1 to 2 abilities, and 2 bonus skill proficiencies is a lot harder to pass up. The difference being downtime learning or not again.

So we've established then that Half-elves are better than standard humans? I'm confused about how we got to a discussion about the relative merits of a Half-Elf here.

 

[Ashrym]

Ok, Goal-post move-y McGee...

You're only ever getting DC 20 auto-success in the skills you have expertise in. So if your expertise skills span three different non-DEX abilities, then for one of those, DC 20 checks will eventually be noticeably easier for the human. On the other hand, for the skill that the human doesn't have proficiency in, all DCs will be easier for the elf. For the entire campaign.

No. Expertise at 10th level is +8 and those bonuses are +2 to give auto-success 20 DC's at the same time as the auto-success 15 DC's without expertise. It's the option to spend addition ASI's on other attributes at 12th level and higher that gives those other ability scores the option with just proficiency sooner.

 

[Zardnaar]

Most classes don't need a lot of high stats and the few that do aren't that good except with rolled stats.

That's basically any class that's a spellcaster that might want to melee and they can only use lt and medium armor.

So things like death clerics, valor bards. Ideally they will have 14 Dex, con, and 16 caster stat and strength. Or higher.

Default human is really only good in certain situations such as rolled stat that are something like 11,11,13,13, 15, 17.

I have seen that once and I think the player went with half elf.

 

[Ashrym]

So we've established then that Half-elves are better than standard humans? I'm confused about how we got to a discussion about the relative merits of a Half-Elf here.

I think we're just side-tracked on rogues, tbh, lol. I think half-elves are better than variant human when CHA ability scores are part of the plan unless DM's allow learning skills in downtime, which marginalizes some of the benefits.

 

[Esker]

No. Expertise at 10th level is +8 and those bonuses are +2 to give auto-success 20 DC's at the same time as the auto-success 15 DC's without expertise. It's the option to spend addition ASI's on other attributes at 12th level and higher that gives those other ability scores the option with just proficiency sooner.

I'm not sure what you're saying here that differs from what I said.

 

[Krachek]

Variant human is a second degree variant rule.
On top of variant feat rule, you may add variant human.
Do not be afraid.
DnD is not a fragile and precise system that a single change can completely dismantle.
Ban a variant fine.
Ban some feats or add perquisite fine.
Change or add some feat fine too.