D&D 5E Ban Variant-Human! Impact?

[Fenris-77]

Meh, just because there's a build that uses the across the board normal human +1s and doesn't completely suck isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. Most players, and yeah, I'm generalizing, are going to be more concerned with being good at what they pictured their class being good at than "equally good at every skill" . Even skill monkey builds don't normally go for that kind of even stat distribution because even skill monkey characters are mostly still more focused than "even bonuses across the board" really works for.

It's not a bad build btw, but it's niche, and it doesn't really add that much lustre to standard human as a racial choice. IMO anyway.

 

[Esker]

Default human is really only good in certain situations such as rolled stat that are something like 11,11,13,13, 15, 17.

I have seen that once and I think the player went with half elf.

This is pretty much the absolute best possible set of rolls for standard human, and even then, there's a good case for going half-elf. Your top 3 stats are the same; if you want to you can spend your 4th level ASI bumping up both your highest stat and your 4th stat; and now we're back to a point in your 5th (and in this case 6th) stats vs the benefits of half-elf.

 

[Ashrym]

I'm not sure what you're saying here that differs from what I said.

"You're only ever getting DC 20 auto-success in the skills you have expertise in."

That's not correct. It takes a +4 ability score bonus at 17th level's +6 proficiency. Rogues still have 3 ASI's after capping DEX in my example. They can choose to spend 2 of them on WIS or CHA (or INT) if they want to auto succeed on DC 20 without expertise. The difference is in doing that at 17th or 19th level.

I like to auto-succeed on DC 20 CHA checks. I can do that with either approach and that depends more on whether there's more exploration or more social interaction in the campaign style. I still only have proficiency in so many skills and expertise in less. Also, my concept of that character matters a lot in that decision point.

 

[Salthorae]

This is pretty much the absolute best possible set of rolls for standard human, and even then, there's a good case for going half-elf. Your top 3 stats are the same; if you want to you can spend your 4th level ASI bumping up both your highest stat and your 4th stat; and now we're back to a point in your 5th (and in this case 6th) stats vs the benefits of half-elf.

Or variant human. Your top three stats could be the same and you have a feat.

I would struggle with those rolls though and actually want to do standard human which rarely happens for me.

 

[Esker]

That's not correct. It takes a +4 ability score bonus at 17th level's +6 proficiency. Rogues still have 3 ASI's after capping DEX in my example. They can choose to spend 2 of them on WIS or CHA (or INT) if they want to auto succeed on DC 20 without expertise. The difference is in doing that at 17th or 19th level.

Ok, I was assuming you weren't going to raise any of your off-stats that high. But either the human or the elf can get exactly one of those (WIS/INT/CHA) to 18, and either one takes two ASIs to do it. The only one the human is ahead in is the one that's sitting at +2 instead of +1.

 

[Zardnaar]

This is pretty much the absolute best possible set of rolls for standard human, and even then, there's a good case for going half-elf. Your top 3 stats are the same; if you want to you can spend your 4th level ASI bumping up both your highest stat and your 4th stat; and now we're back to a point in your 5th (and in this case 6th) stats vs the benefits of half-elf.

I've seen slightly better and she went for half elf.

Plus one on a few skills doesn't really matter.

Variant humane magic initiate cleric or druid pick guidance. Better skills than a random +1 somewhere.

 

[Esker]

Ok, I was assuming you weren't going to raise any of your off-stats that high. But either the human or the elf can get exactly one of those (WIS/INT/CHA) to 18, and either one takes two ASIs to do it. The only one the human is ahead in is the one that's sitting at +2 instead of +1.

To take the example characters from above, at level 10 we have a wood elf with 8,20,14,12,14,14 vs a human with 11,20,14,14,14,14. Both have three ASIs left. Suppose you want to auto-succeed on DC 20 CHA checks. Both characters can make that happen by level 16.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Variant human is a second degree variant rule.
On top of variant feat rule, you may add variant human.
Do not be afraid.
DnD is not a fragile and precise system that a single change can completely dismantle.
Ban a variant fine.
Ban some feats or add perquisite fine.
Change or add some feat fine too.

From a philosophical perspective, there is no need to "ban" variant humans. You simply don't choose to allow them.

As for "impact" I would say "none".

 

[MoonSong]

As for "impact" I would say "none".

Yeah. After all, half-elf is almost human if you squint...

 

[Ashrym]

To take the example characters from above, at level 10 we have a wood elf with 8,20,14,12,14,14 vs a human with 11,20,14,14,14,14. Both have three ASIs left. Suppose you want to auto-succeed on DC 20 CHA checks. Both characters can make that happen by level 16.

Ok, I was assuming you weren't going to raise any of your off-stats that high. But either the human or the elf can get exactly one of those (WIS/INT/CHA) to 18, and either one takes two ASIs to do it. The only one the human is ahead in is the one that's sitting at +2 instead of +1.

I don't consider them off stats. I consider them non-combat stats. The entire premise of the niche is a general bonus on more checks instead of the earlier bigger bonus.

DC 20 persuasion auto success is fun. How the bonuses get there directly impacts what levels it becomes available. That 14 starting CHA means it's there at 10th level with expertise. The wood elf example that has 10 CHA gets the same option but not until 13th level. The wood elf example with 14 CHA can do the same thing at the same time.

I would point out going wood elf gives only penalties to the abilities scores in comparison at this point. These are minor in STR and INT but they still exist. Matching the ability score spread was impossible for the elf and ended up with minor concessions. Technically the human auto-succeeds DC20 at investigation at 10th level if he's taken expertise in it as well but that can be a big "if". That only matters if expertise is taken in enough different ability score attributes the elf couldn't have done the same thing. Stealth, perception, investigation, and persuasion I suppose. I would concede that's certainly not guaranteed and stops mattering later anyway. They both auto-succeed DC15 investigation with just proficiency.

Darkvision, movement, mask of the wild and a bonus skill proficiency. Most of those are minor in a heavy social campaign but they do look good to have. The important thing is I can carry more treasure so I'm calling them pretty close. ;-)

edit: removed basic math brain fart